Logging in

[VicParticipant @vic]

This websites software is really perverse at times. I have not had to log in at all for well over a month, probably 6 or 7 weeks until yesterday. Today I had to log in and made a post and then got logged out within a minute! As usual sometimes the “remember me” button is available and sometimes it’s not. I bet many software vendors would struggle to produce such a random product on purpose …

[VicParticipant @vic]

[Nick Clarke 3Participant @nickclarke3]

The information required to stay logged in is almost certainly stored on your computer, not by the website.

One possible reason for the recent issue is an update to your computers software, certainly a load of Win10 updates have been flying around recently.

[Andrew TinsleyParticipant @andrewtinsley63637]

I doubt it is a Windows 10 update that is causing the problem. It seems endemic to the site software. I have been logged in for many months and suddenly I am logged out and this goes on for a week or two and then I am logged on again for a prolonged period. Doesn't matter if you tick the box to stay logged on. It seems to be completely random whether or not you get logged out or not.

I also doubt that my computer is responsible as I always start up my computer for a browsing session and always close down at the end of it. So consistency from my end.

Andrew.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Posted by Andrew Tinsley on 19/05/2020 10:57:51:

I doubt it is a Windows 10 update that is causing the problem. It seems endemic to the site software. I have been logged in for many months and suddenly I am logged out and this goes on for a week or two and then I am logged on again for a prolonged period.

Sound like the software engineers need a few days to update the site software following a Windows update to get it settled down again until the next Windows update comes along and everyone starts moaning again

[Martin KyteParticipant @martinkyte99762]

Kicked me offand I'm on a mac. Just logged in again and has been fine since.

Possibly logging in is the only time membership is checked? so periodid housekeeping would seem reasonable. Can't say I bothers me overmuch.

regards Martin

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

I had a day a while back where I was logged off a few times.

It happens, even on some other websites.

I've posted a long list of causes elsewhere, I won't repeat it!

Neil

[Andrew TinsleyParticipant @andrewtinsley63637]

I really don't mind about the random logging out, I am just mildly curious as to the reason.

I have a laptop on windows 7 and a very old one on Vista (these are machines with no confidential data, just used for browsing in study and workshop). So no updates on Vista and none now for Win 7. I get the random logging out syndrome on both of these machines too. So it can't be anything to do with updates.

A mildly curious,

Andrew.

[Enough!Participant @enough]

Posted by Nick Clarke 3 on 19/05/2020 10:47:17:

The information required to stay logged in is almost certainly stored on your computer, not by the website.

One possible reason for the recent issue is an update to your computers software, certainly a load of Win10 updates have been flying around recently.

 

Nah … it was happening to me repeatedly yesterday. Couldn't stay logged on after I closed the browser (yes "Remember Me" was checked) and I'm on Windows8.1 which hasn't been updated in any significant way for some time.

Something happening on the site (again).

 

 

Edited By Bandersnatch on 19/05/2020 17:16:49

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Search 'logging' and browse the many threads…

Neil

[Enough!Participant @enough]

Posted by Nick Clarke 3 on 19/05/2020 10:47:17:

The information required to stay logged in is almost certainly stored on your computer, not by the website.

 

Sorry – forgot this in my previous post and too late to edit now …

Here's a scenario (under normal conditions):

I log on from Machine-A and check "Remember Me". I can close the browser and then reboot that machine and stay logged on as many times as I want..

So I close the Machine-A browser, go to Machine-B and go to the website. Unsurprisingly I need to log on which I do and check "Remember Me".

Close the Machine-B browser, go to Machine-A and go to the website. Need to login on again.

If it's all done with local cookies and not at the website, how does Machine-A know about the Machine-B cookie?

Edited By Bandersnatch on 19/05/2020 18:32:07

[Enough!Participant @enough]

Incidentally, another way to get logged out unintentionally on this (and probably other sites) is to have too many tabs/windows into the site open at once.

I have a bookmark folder with multiple links to this site. Occasionally, instead of left-clicking to open the folder, I inadvertently centre-click it. This opens all the links at once in separate tabs and is guaranteed to get me logged out.

[Kiwi BlokeParticipant @kiwibloke62605]

Just adding to the evidence base, should anyone be trying to get to the bottom of this issue. Never had a problem, although I don't log on all that often, and stay logged-on for only as long as it takes to make a couple of posts. Using Linux, Firefox, AdBlock plus, NoScript. I disallow third-party cookies and clear cookies between sites. Only script allowed is from …model-engineer.co.uk. Therefore, for me, there's no evidence that this site is misbehaving.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Bandersnatch on 19/05/2020 18:30:44:

Posted by Nick Clarke 3 on 19/05/2020 10:47:17:

The information required to stay logged in is almost certainly stored on your computer, not by the website.

 

…

I log on from Machine-A and check "Remember Me". I can close the browser and then reboot that machine and stay logged on as many times as I want..

So I close the Machine-A browser, go to Machine-B and go to the website. Unsurprisingly I need to log on which I do and check "Remember Me".

Close the Machine-B browser, go to Machine-A and go to the website. Need to login on again.

If it's all done with local cookies and not at the website, how does Machine-A know about the Machine-B cookie?

…

It's because it's not all done with local cookies!

As Neil says the possibilities have been explored before without pinning down a simple cause, briefly:

• Main 'login memory' is provided by local cookies. These can be disrupted by local security software and browser settings and by software upgrades, or accidentaly corrupted. Their purpose is user convenience.
• The server also remembers logins. It's purpose is partly to manage whatever rules the website has about the same user logging in several times from one or more machines; but mostly – I'm guessing – to manage what happens when the website can't respond quickly enough to user demand. If too many users hammer the site, or a temporary fault reduces network or server capacity, the server will shed excess load, typically by logging people off. It will also attempt to remove junk connections failed because of network problems, which occur almost anywhere! It's possible, but unlikely, that the server record gets corrupted. Management systems often self-repair, but not necessarily quickly. A primitive service might only do repair on restart.
• Looking at MyTimeMedia's set-up shows that 'Model Engineering' isn't an independent web-site running on it's own dedicated hardware. Rather it's just one of several sharing the same software and hardware, and managed as a whole. Have a look at Stamp Magazine : although the colour and content are different, it's clearly the same stamp (ho ho) as this forum. Sharing means an overloaded sister forum could well cause trouble here.
• Finally the concept of a 'User' in computing is broad. As well as individuals like you and I, who generally don't impose much load on a website, there are a bunch of much heavier system users like the back-up service & security services, or admin updating the operating system. These periodically give the machine a damned good thrashing. External users like Google collecting search data are busy on the forum too.

There's a rich mix of possibilities! Most likely, because the fault tends to cluster on individuals, it's at their end. Just a hypothesis, maybe a cookie/network problem causes a disjoint between user and the server; ie a glitch in the middle of a login transaction leaves client and server semi-confused.

'Have you tried switching it on and off?' is an old computer support joke, but it has a solid foundation. Computer systems are complex beyond human understanding and they do develop mysterious faults due to internal inconsistencies. Rebooting clears out all the crud, and it all works again. Be interesting to reboot the forums server to see if it fixes Andrew's problem, but whoever runs it won't be keen. When thousands are happily using a service, it doesn't pay to trash it in hope of helping a few, especially when those individuals might be causing the problem at their end!

Dave

 

Edited By SillyOldDuffer on 20/05/2020 10:04:41

[Alan Wilkinson 1Participant @alanwilkinson1]

I also have trouble logon on but my problem is it keeps telling me my password is incorrect so they send a new one and that doesn’t always work. So not our end its crap admin. PS I got logged on for this wonder if i will again??

Edited By Alan Wilkinson 1 on 20/05/2020 12:03:28

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