Kingsland Compact 40 Ironworker

[Clive FosterParticipant @clivefoster55965]

Helping a friend sort out some electrical and other issues with a Kingsland Compact 40 Ironworker. Unfortunately manuals and other data appear to be unobtanium so I was hoping that someone here may have experience with these machines. Allegedly working before being disconnected and pushed into a corner for a couple of years with the usual electrical derangements suffered during such treatment.

We think we have the electrical issues sorted but the guillotine operation doesn't seem right.

The punch parks in the expected up position and downstrokes to make the hole when the control pedal is operated. Which is what you'd expect.

The guillotine section currently works in the opposite fashion. The blade parks in the down position and pressing the pedal lifts it so the cut is made on the downstroke as it returns to the park position. Which doesn't seem right as it makes positioning the material incredibly inconvenient.

It seems unlikely that anyone has gotten into the machine and upset the mechanics so is there an electrical control issue, possibly linked to the travel stop switches, that could cause this.

Controls are slightly puzzling in that there is a key operated switch labeled punch but no separate control for the guillotine section.

Thanks for any help.

Clive

[Clive FosterParticipant @clivefoster55965]

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

An Interesting looking bit of kit

Couldn't find any exact matches

There may be a sino copy manual

GL

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi, I've only ever used a Kingsland Hydraulic Universal Metalworker very similar to this or even the same Kingsland Metalworker (ebay) can't remember much about settings as it was quite a few years ago, but the guillotine was always in the up position at rest. They did have an electrician out to it once and I believe the electrics are a bit complex and the guy had to trace every wire away from the fault.

Regards Nick.

[noel shelleyParticipant @noelshelley55608]

Have you looked in the base/stand ? Is it a hydraulic unit ? It may have a simple spool valve or may use a solenoid valve. Either way it sounds as though someone has meddled ! Noel.

[Clive FosterParticipant @clivefoster55965]

Nick

Thanks for confirming that the guillotine blade should be in the up position at rest. I did wonder if the key operated switch labeled punch reversed things so that the unused side parked down as a safety feature reducing the chances of foreign bodies getting into dangerous places.

Noel

We have peered through the inspection cover and, so far as can be seen given the very restricted visibility all the mechanics look OK. Those things are very heavily built and access in general is poor so it would take a very determined person to upset the mechanics.

First impressions are that the punch and guillotine are driven via a rocking lever system from the bi-directional hydraulic cylinder so the punch and guillotine may well move in opposite directions. The control is electrical via solenoid controlled valves or spool valve. Dunno which, can't see.

Given Nicks comments about the complexity of the wiring, there seems an awful lot for what naively might be expected to be a simple device, we think it most likely that something is wrong there. At least its still clean and neatly laid out.

Clive

[bernard towersParticipant @bernardtowers37738]

Try C & W Engineering Fakenham 01328 856499. They are ex Kingsland.

[Clive FosterParticipant @clivefoster55965]

bernard

Thanks for that.

Clive

[Alistair Robertson 1Participant @alistairrobertson1]

I used to have one of those rocking beam type ironworkers. There was a switch to move between shear and punch which allowed the hydraulics to alter the operation of the directional control valve, shear up and punch down move the switch and vice versa!

I must say we never had a problem but it must be a misplaced or missing wire around that area.

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi Clive, having read one or two of the other posts, it could be that you can only use the punch or the guillotine but not both at the same time, hence a switch for one or the other, the one I used, both the punch and guillotine could be used on their own and at the same time, but it was a big powerful machine, the specification plate in one of the photos in the link in my first post shows it's capacities.

Regards Nick.

Edited By Nicholas Farr on 29/07/2022 14:31:06

[Clive FosterParticipant @clivefoster55965]

Gentlemen

Thanks for the assistance.

Looks like first thing to do is confirm that it actually is a rocking beam type where punch and guillotine move in opposite directions. If so it seems that sorting out the wiring of the ram reversing control should fix it.

Unfortunately my friend is not the most electrically savvy of people and only tends to call me in after he has fiddled with things and failed. So I may have to work out what he has done to get it partially working before I can fix the real fault!

Currently waiting on some XB4 switch gear components to replace a broken one no longer held together by faith.

Clive

[Clive FosterParticipant @clivefoster55965]

Just to close the thread I'm happy to report that the problem has been solved.

Turned out to be the key operated switch labeled Punch which actually switches between guillotine and punch function. Needed a new actuator. One of those build up from parts BX4 series devices so sourcing things was relatively easy and the actual switch bodies could be changed over onto the new mounting flange and actuator. No need to detach or alter wiring.

Flogging through the 'undreds of parts in the catalogue list to figure exactly which bits you need is a considerable headache tho'. Ended up using a different breed with a better mounting collar set-up. Actual switch bodies fit all breeds.

Clive

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