jet size

[dave greenhamParticipant @davegreenham19379]

Hi Gentleman

I'm trying to solder a 4" copper boiler. the boiler is 13 gauge and the end plater is 3 mm. the problem is the solder will not run, yes i know what you are going to say, NOT ENOUGH HEAT. and that silver soldering is easy. I agree it is easy if you can do it. But my question is…. am i better using a big burner on the gun, or would i be better with a smaller size burner ? I'm using Tenacity No5 flux and Brazetec 5507 solder ( 55% ) copper, zinc, tin.. the flux goes clear but the solder just will not run. Yes everything is clean, pickled, washed and wire wool used to shine it up.. Any suggestions please

regards

Dave.

[dave greenhamParticipant @davegreenham19379]

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

A bigger burner is usually best to bring the whole thing upto heat rater than doing just a smallarea and trying to chase the solder around the joint. I would be looking at a 30-35mm burner on a propane bottle with plenty of suitable bricks to reflect heat back onto the work.

J

[nigel jones 5Participant @nigeljones5]

I find T5 flux doesnt flow half as easily as easyflo, but then if your not well versed in SS I gues it is a lot more forgiving. What thickness SS rod are you using, all supposed to melt at same point but the thinner it is the quicker it will melt (from experience)?

[dave greenhamParticipant @davegreenham19379]

Hi Fizzy

the rosa are 1.0 mm also have some 1.5 mm but they take about 3 wks to melt lol

regards

dave

[dave greenhamParticipant @davegreenham19379]

The rods are 1 mm

[Sub MandrelParticipant @submandrel]

I managed to solder a 3 1/2" boiler with a 17mm propabne burner and a blowtorch for backup. I am confident that anything bigger would need a much bigger burner.

Neil

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

I'm not too sure on the specs of your "solder", I'm not a steam man, but shoul it not be a silver based alloy, too late now if you'v used one with tin I think. The experts will be along soon. Ian S C

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Its a 55% silver one so OK.

 

Same make up as Silver-flow 55 which also has 2% tin (AG155)

 

J

Edited By JasonB on 26/07/2013 08:00:31

[Speedy Builder5Participant @speedybuilder5]

And Brazetec 5507 even has a little Cadmium in it !! I think I would go with more bricks, and more heat. Copper EATS heat, and is very different than silver soldering steel components.

[dave greenhamParticipant @davegreenham19379]

Hi Gentlemen .

thanks for all the advise, I've now cleaned everything up again, but this time I'm going wrap the boiler up in a fire blanket ( meant to have done that the last time but forgot, memory's not what it was lol)

I'm pretty sure there was enough heat but the blanket can't do any harm.

regards

dave

[Sub MandrelParticipant @submandrel]

Dave, you don't say how big your torch is?

Neil

[dave greenhamParticipant @davegreenham19379]

Hi Neil.

all I can tell you is its from Machine mart. Came with 3 burners 12, 14, and 17 mm running on propane at max pressure with largest burner. I don't think it's heat, as when I did the other end of the boiler we even put an Oxy torch on it, Again everything was cleaned with wire wool. And took over an hour to do 4" boiler dia. same thing, It just didn't want to run. That's why I changed the flux to Tenacity No 5 in case I was burning the flux out. Even the tenacity made no difference. The next time I have a go, I'm going to wrap the boiler in a fire blanket. Just to make sure it's not. A heat problem.

Regards

Dave

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Did the regulator come with the torch? or are you using a low pressure reg rather than a high pressure one, you want 3 to 4 bar.

And the 17 is still a bit small, based on Silvert burners a 17mm gives 1.2Kw, 28mm 7.7Kw and a 32mm 26Kw.

Edited By JasonB on 27/07/2013 07:11:12

[dave greenhamParticipant @davegreenham19379]

Hi Jason

the regulator came with the torch.

regards

Dave

[Sub MandrelParticipant @submandrel]

Hi Dave,

The same otorch as mine. The 17mm burner is not enough. Go for the next set up they do and be prepared to use a lotr of gas! Whole set is cheaper than one seivert tip!

Neil

[Gordon WParticipant @gordonw]

Please don't bite my head off, but are you sure you do have silver solder ? Can be easy to mix up. just that I have done it myself.

[dave greenhamParticipant @davegreenham19379]

Hi Gorden

lol, yes, I'm sure. The only solder I have in rod form is S/solder.

regards

Dave

[Sub MandrelParticipant @submandrel]

Folks, Dave and I have the FC109 torch kit HERE as Ian suggests I would like to get the FC108 kit sonmetime as although it doesn't seem much bigger the 35mm burner should be about 15 times more powerful and the 50mm must be well scary….

For anyone reading this thread and thinking of getting a torch kit for brazing, THIS would probably be a good a starter kit as any, but oddly it leaves out the 17mm burner, which I suspect is the best for general purpose use, I'd guess at it being about 4-5 times the power of a standard blowtorch.

Neil

Edited By Stub Mandrel on 27/07/2013 13:31:55

[dave greenhamParticipant @davegreenham19379]

Neil

50mm ? wonder what the fire brigade charge to be on standby ? Lol

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Also worth making sure you have a decent size propane bottle when using the bigger burners as the bottle will chill quite quickly and pressure will drop. The 3.9kg bottles are a bit on teh small side.

[dave greenhamParticipant @davegreenham19379]

Hi Jason.

no probs there, it's a 47kg hardly used until I started trying to do this boiler

regards

dave

[nigel jones 5Participant @nigeljones5]

You can probably just aboutget away with the torch you have but be prepared for a long wait till it gers hot enough – insulation is a must. I did a 4" copper boiler a while ago with oxy and couldnt beleive how much heat that ate up!! I normally tig but people talked me into doing it the old way (years since I last didnt tig one) and I wont be doing another again for a while! Tig is cheap, strong and looks very nice!

[doubletopParticipant @doubletop]

I'm going to also suggest the 17mm burner is way undersized for 4" tube and 3mm plate. The 50mm Sievert 2944 is 86kW (no the decimal place isn't missing) and the 35mm 2943 is 44Kw that the capacities you need to be looking at

Celcon/Thermalite blocks for insulation along with the thermal blanket.

I did see mention of using wire wool to clean the parts, although Tenacity 5 does a good job of cleaning by itself make it easier and pickle the job in a bath of saturated solution of citric acid (baking section in Tescos)

I'm no expert but one of the been there done that brigade and there’s a similar post from me from only a few years back

Pete

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