Hoover Motor Lubrication

[Chris VParticipant @chrisv]

I have a Kennedy hacksaw with original Hoover motor. The bearings have lubrication points as in the photo. Up till now Ive only had oil cups on my machines, what do I need to apply lubricant to these nipples?

Firstly are they for oil, or for grease?

Secondly what tool do I look for, preferably vintage to apply the lubricant?

Thanks in advance

Chris.

[Chris VParticipant @chrisv]

What & how do I lubricate via these nipples?

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

What type are the bearings?  Change the fitting?

Edited By not done it yet on 30/04/2021 10:10:19

[Chris VParticipant @chrisv]

I dont know? Presumably ball bearings??

thanks

Chris.

[Clive FosterParticipant @clivefoster55965]

That is an old style low pressure grease gun fitting.

Needs a simple tubular "push on the end" style grease gun. Often supplied for use with motorcycles of the 1930 – 1960 (ish) era.

Mine is about 1 1/4" diameter by 6" long. Main body in brass with a zinc alloy screw on nozzle. I also have a larger one of the same type maybe 2" by 10" with a push handle on a stem but thats not really the right gun although the end is the same.

Could dig them out for pictures if of interest.

Sealing on the fitting can be a problem. Common way is to put a piece of clean cloth over the nipple and push the grease through it.

Modern push type oil guns may also fit.

Clive

[Dave HalfordParticipant @davehalford22513]

I believe oil

Webb's push lawnmowers from the 60's came with a concave ended plunger type oiler that looks like a grease gun.

You might get one at a car boot.

Seeing Clives post the only way to be sure of which type is to take the motor end cap off.

Edited By Dave Halford on 30/04/2021 12:48:43

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

Posted by Chris V on 30/04/2021 10:21:41:

I dont know? Presumably ball bearings??

thanks

Chris.

In that case I will presume, too. Grease. If not lube may be oil.

[Chris VParticipant @chrisv]

Thank you all, and there was me yet again thinking wrongly it would be a simple answer! (-:

Clive yes please I would certainly be interested in seeing some photos. Thanks for the how to do it tip also.

I will get it rewired and consider whether to take apart or use it as is for now, possibly/hopefully someone who owns a Kennedy saw might actually know for sure…..

Chris.

[Clive FosterParticipant @clivefoster55965]

If you are not sure which type of gun you have the test is simple :-

Grease guns generally have the push plunger on the top end and always leak when filled with oil. It pretty much runs straight out making a big mess.

Oil guns frequently have a sliding nozzle assembly which moves back into the body as the oil is dispensed. They usually leak when filled with oil. Slow flow though so usually a smaller mess. Storing nose up can help.

Allegedly the expensive Wanner breed of oil guns, now sold to use with Myfords, and similar are better than older varieties. Various claims for superior seals. But I'm not going to hold my breath.

Clive

[Trevor Drabble 1Participant @trevordrabble1]

Chris , According to the Kennedy brochures , the motor bearings are indeed ball bearings , though they do not describe a lubrication schedule for the motor . The secret with electric motors is not to over-lubricate . General advice is to use NGLI ( National Lubrication Grease Institute ) grades 2 or 3 , with a viscosity of 100 -150 cSt . More detailed information is available from Mobile . Have tried to find the icon to insert a link , but failed miserably am afraid , but hopefully will be able to email info to you if you feel it would be beneficial to you . Trevor.

[Clive FosterParticipant @clivefoster55965]

Chris

Can't find my push type grease gun of the first type mentioned, annoying as its a good pre-war one I've been looking after for almost half a century but here are the other push guns I have.

Middle one is a grease gun with hollow end which probably matches your fitting.

The other two are oil guns one with male cone end and one with a female cone. The nozzle ends push up into the body to drive the oil in. Those ones leak in storage!

Clive

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

Shirley, a new nipple would be a far, far cheaper (and likely tidier and easier) alternative to hunting out another grease gun that fits that nipple?

[Chris VParticipant @chrisv]

Thank you Trevor, Ive sent you a PM with my email address.

Thank you Clive very much, yes the middle one looks like it would fit, I shall keep a look out.

Thank you too not done it yet, yes of course you are right, however as its all original I would prefer to keep it that way. Having one grease gun in my ownership would not be a bad thing either, Ive never had need to use one let alone own one.

Cheers

Chris.

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

Most grease guns have screw on nozzles. A change to a suitable nozzle is yet another option. I am mildly surprised that it does not have sleeve bearings. I would be checking before putting in the wrong lubricant – definitely not presuming anything! Grease does not soak through a lube pad too well.

[Chris VParticipant @chrisv]

Thank you not done it yet. Yes I looked grease guns up and can see they could be changed or even modified.

As yet though I don't have one but they can be had for only £10 so would not break the bank anyway.

It was pointed out the original sales literature states the Hoover motor has ball bearings. Further advice received from several sources mentioned the danger of over greasing the bearings, so for now I'm going to get it running and see how the bearing ends feel once its done some work.

Many thanks for your help,

Chris.

[noel shelleyParticipant @noelshelley55608]

One place to look for oil or grease guns – old- is in agrriculture, combined harvesters had oil and grease guns, the trouble was the drivers would borrow them. Claas had good ones. Noel.

[Andrew Moyes 1Participant @andrewmoyes1]

Hi Chris. Having just stripped down the 1/6hp Hoover motor on my Kennedy hacksaw, I can confirm they are definitely ball bearings and it should be grease not oil. The bearings are shielded on their inner sides (to protect from dirt and retain the grease) but open on the outer sides so they can be regreased.

I have replaced the bearings in mine and tried to obtain bearings with a single shield but without luck. The original bearings are 6203-Z. I think the suffix Z means one shield and ZZ or 2Z means two shields. Although I carefully ordered suffix Z, they came with two shields. Rather than trying to prise out one shield, I decided to fit them as they were so it is now a 'lubricated for life' motor, a nice euphemism meaning they can't be regreased. They will see me out.

Andrew

[noel shelleyParticipant @noelshelley55608]

Adding to Andrew Ms comment on bearings – Correct, ZZ =2 steel shields, 2RS = 2 rubber shields, C3 is a fit rating, often used on electric motors to allow for them running hot. Noel.

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi Noel, not quite sure what you mean by a fit rating, however C3 is having greater than normal internal clearance, *which is what has to be consider for the degrees of interference fits and any thermal expansion. (simply put)* Of course C4 is greater than C3 and C5 is greater than C4. The bearing size will be that of the bearing designation regardless of the C number and C2 and C1 have less than normal clearances. In simple but crude terms, how much slop there is between the inner and outer races radially before mounting the bearing.

Designation system

Regards Nick.

Edited By Nicholas Farr on 01/05/2021 15:27:20

[Chris VParticipant @chrisv]

Thanks Andrew, that's good to know for sure about the bearings. Did you have an issue or where you just being really good and wanting to keep it well serviced?

Chris.

[Andrew Moyes 1Participant @andrewmoyes1]

The machine was in a generally clapped out condition so I decided to give it a top-to-bottom overhaul, leaving no stone unturned. While I had the motor apart, I changed the bearings, checked the centrifugal switch, stripped off the unsightly hand painting, and resprayed it. The flat belt has been ditched and replaced by poly-vee.

The hexslides are next. Where the slides have worn, I will cut some relief slots across the fixed bars at the ends of travel. This will allow the bow to overrun into the slots (as on loco slide bars), then I'll re-shim the bow.

[Chris VParticipant @chrisv]

Thanks Andrew, would love to see photos when its done if you are so inclined! (-:

Chris.

[Leslie DeasyParticipant @lesliedeasy53009]

Hi have you any pictures of your kennedy hacksaw please.

Would also like to see the hoover motor striped

[Andrew Moyes 1Participant @andrewmoyes1]

Hi Leslie and Chris. I haven’t made the progress I intended on the Kennedy hacksaw restoration. Partly because I hit some snags but I have also been diverted to help my son restore his new flat. However your requests will encourage me to get it finished and take photos.
Leslie – I renovated the Hoover motor first and didn’t take any photos while it was apart. If you have any specific questions I will try to answer them. One thing to note is that there are only three wires in total emerging from the start and run windings. One end of each winding is commoned within the windings and that wire goes to the neutral terminal. The other end of the run winding goes to line terminal and the other end of the start winding goes to line via the centrifugal switch. It’s therefore not possible to reverse this motor – not that you would want to anyway in this hacksaw application.
I'll open a new thread on the issue I had with the main bronze bearing.

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