Herbert B drill information?

[Andrew TinsleyParticipant @andrewtinsley63637]

Hello,

Would anyone have a parts diagram for the above? A manual would be even better, but a parts diagram would help me reassemble a dismantled drill.

Thanks in advance,

Andrew.

[gerry maddenParticipant @gerrymadden53711]

Hi Andrew, here are the parts sheets for the B.  Hope they are of use. But they will confuse you I’m sure, as they did me. Give me a shout if you have a problem and I will try to help as Im just reassembling one of these now.

You didn’t by any chance purchase the ‘unfinished project’ that was advertised recently?

…oh this wont take my scanned pdf, will come back to you later…

 

Gerry

[gerry madden]

On gerry madden Said:

[…]

…oh this wont take my scanned pdf, will come back to you later…

 

Gerry

Assuming that you mean what I think you do, Gerry

A scanned pdf can be dropped into your “Gallery” here, for any participant to access.

Start at your Profile …

MichaelG.

[Andrew TinsleyParticipant @andrewtinsley63637]

Hi Gerry,

Yes indeed, I purchased it from Michelle and her father in Downham Market. Great people, I enjoy listening to her father, a veritable goldmine of information. I suspect my drill purchase was an excuse for a trip out and to catch up with the old chap once again.

I have started to solve the jigsaw, but one or two bits are puzzling. The original high speed pulleys are missing and maybe some other small bits. No problem in making the bits, if I know what they are!

I have an even older and far more massive Herbert high speed drill which I have overhauled, so I will probably not bother with the high speeds on the B and configure it for medium speeds with conventional pulleys and belt.

Interestingly the drill came from a combined base with a set of four drills mounted upon it. Michelle’s father made a wooden pattern of a single drill base and had castings made, which he machined. All bearings are new and he has made a couple of spare spindles with different types of chuck fixings. So well worth the jigsaw puzzle! I suspect that Tony(?) at lathes.uk probably has a manual, but that would probably cost considerably more than the drill!

Thanks,

Andrew.

 

 

 

 

[gerry maddenParticipant @gerrymadden53711]

Thanks Michael, I think I have successfully created a gallery and have placed the pdfs in it. However for the completeness of the thread, and easier discussion, I’m inserting the pics also.

I also enquired about your drill and was told it was already snaffled up :). In my case, I already had one of these units but thought a few spare parts wouldn’t do any harm. However, I’m pleased it’s gone to someone who will put it all back together.

Naturally I studied the pictures in the advert very closely. I was particularly interested in the spindle assembly though. Mine had been fitted with a large and ugly appendage to which was attached an even uglier and rattly LFA chuck. This appendage completely covered the spindle end cover (pt 46….LH thread by the way) which prevented disassembly. I couldn’t tell whether the appendage had been glued on or screwed, or if the latter, which way. In the end I had to mill slots in it in order to access the pin-spanner holes so that I could complete the dismantling.

The intention with my machine is to make it run successfully at its ‘plated’ max. of 18000RPM. Unfortunately, like you, I don’t have the pulleys for that so will have to make them. But spindle balance, runout and control of the lubrication will also be necessary to achieve this speed reliably, so I’m re-building my ‘B’ with special attention to these features.

Herbert had fitted grease nipples to the spindle and spindle drive, and as a result previous owners had made maximum use of these. The whole assembly was stuffed full of grease! I have cleaned all of this out and are in the process of installing shielded bearings with a high speed capable grease.

The spindle in this drill is very thin and potentially flexible, so an out-of-balance chuck may whirl. I had been looking around for a good quality miniature chuck but they are pretty expensive. I then had the idea of attaching a ER11 or ER8 collet chuck instead. Whilst mulling this over I came across a miniature key-chuck on Arc’s site. It had the correct ‘J0’ fitting for my spindle (option 29 in the pictures) and was less then £4! I have therefore bought one of these for initial trials. It’s actually much better than I expected though. On first random installation I measured only 0.010mm (0.0005″) runout on a 2mm drill shank which was shockingly good. However, when installed 180 deg from that position on the spindle nose, the runout increased to 0.100m (0.004″).  The latter is still not bad for a drill chuck, but how this will feel at 18000 RPM I don’t know. I may still need to go to an ER collet arrangement for smoothness and balance, but lets see.

I notice in the parts lists that the drill was available with a chucked spindle and collet spindle. Which do you have?

Herberts have made this drill particularly interesting in so far as they have used several special threads and quite a number of LH threads. So be careful when trying to unscrew things. Give me a shout if you get stuck.

I tend to measure up components in important areas to check the assembly quality and in case I need to make another. So if you are missing anything let me know as I may have the details. I did find that part 19 interfered with the bearings so had to machine it down to clear. I also re-installed plain single-row ball bearings in the spindle drive, instead of those self-aligning types which make no sense.

Another mistake I discovered was on the spindle. The seating for the lower bearing contained a radius that was far too big. As soon as I saw it I knew it was too large, even before measuring it! I made this pic for illustration purposes ….

Oversize radii cause bearings to distort and sit out of square. In a high speed application it would generate vibration too which is the last thing I want. I have therefore now sharpened up this shaft fillet to ensure the new bearing sits correctly.

 

One part my drill didn’t come with was part no. 39/40. I’m not even sure what this is for! Any thoughts?

Gerry

 

 

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Yes … PDF is accessible

and usefully ‘clean’ compared with the .jpg

MichaelG.

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[Andrew TinsleyParticipant @andrewtinsley63637]

Hello Gerry.

Thank you so much for your efforts. I have both the J0 and and collet spindles, although there is some wear in the area of the small bearings on both. Luckily new spindles have been made.

The Arc J0 chuck is an excellent piece of kit. I have two, one is used in the Arc sensitive drilling unit and the other is on an Arrand spindle. The bits and pieces came with a J0 Reliance chuck. I know little about these chucks, but this one is brand new and will be an excellent addition to the drill. Seems that the Arc J0 chuck is being phased out, so if any one wants one, they need to be quick, at £4 its a real bargain.

I have found a couple of the original pullies. so I may, after all, try for the 18000 rpm. So far I seem to be missing the spring on the mechanism that lowers the drill, not exactly a problem.

I shall spend this evening identifying all the parts that I have. I should not be surprised if you are queried over some of the items in the next month or two. I shall be assembling /renovating between other jobs that are on the go. To be honest I have a range of drilling machines, so this one is not exactly top priority. But a nice little bit of kit to have and admire.

Thanks again,

Andrew.

[old martParticipant @oldmart]

I think that parts 38, 39 and 40 are made to lock the spindle while changing chucks or collets. Most people would simply use an open ended spanner.

[gerry maddenParticipant @gerrymadden53711]

Andrew,

The handle balancing spring….

This has a wire dia of almost exactly 1mm a coil pack length and dia of 24mm x 17.5 and protruding location pins of 10.7mm long.

I would be very interested in some pics of your collet spindle. Do you have collets to go with it? I suspect, knowing Herbert, these might be special too 🙂

Also, when its convenient I wouldn’t mind a pic or two and some rough dimensions of your motor pulleys.

Gerry

[gerry maddenParticipant @gerrymadden53711]

Old Mart – spindle lock, yes that would make sense. There is a vacant hole in the base of the casting adjacent to the spindle. Thanks.

 

[Andrew TinsleyParticipant @andrewtinsley63637]

Hello Gerry,

Not too well right now, get back to you in a couple of days, once feeling a touch better.

Andrew.

[Andrew Tinsley]

On Andrew Tinsley Said:

[…]

 

Seems that the Arc J0 chuck is being phased out, so if any one wants one, they need to be quick, at £4 its a real bargain.  […]

Thanks for that recommendation, Andrew

My order arrived today … Amazing quality for the price !

[ or vice versa ]

MichaelG.

[Andrew TinsleyParticipant @andrewtinsley63637]

Hello Gerry,

There are a couple of private messages for you.

Andrew

[Oily RagParticipant @oilyrag]

Gerry wrote:

“I would be very interested in some pics of your collet spindle. Do you have collets to go with it? I suspect, knowing Herbert, these might be special too”

I had the good fortune to drop onto a stock of collets and collet nuts that came out of Hey Machine Tools in Longford Coventry when it closed down about 5 years ago. These were out of their tool stores and were issued for their Herbert and Aciera small high speed drilling machines. These are shown as items #33 and #34 (collet and collet nut respectively) in the first plate of the Herbert model B parts lists above. There were also numerous Jacobs Model ‘O’ 0-5/32″ capacity drill chucks which I disposed of via the ‘For Sale’ section on this website.

If anyone is interested I have the collets (which are genuine Boley although some are Crawford) still available. They are Boley type ‘T’, ‘S’ & ‘U’ in a range of sizes (which generally equate to number sized drills and a small number of metric sizes). There are approximately a thousand in total of these collets!

Martin

[Author]

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