Help with Tilley Lamps

[Bo’sunParticipant @bosun58570]

Good evening,

I have two X246B Tilley Lamps (circa 1980). They have always given good service, but now not so much.

Each one has a new vapouriser tube (not that there looked to be anything wrong with the old ones), a new mantle, and is running on CALDO "Paraffin Extra" (extra low sulphur) Paraffin.

However, they burn with warm rather than bright light, with small flames at the top of the mantle. Despite plenty of pressure they tend to pulsate a little.

Any suggestions and comments appreciated.

[Bo’sunParticipant @bosun58570]

[Rik ShawParticipant @rikshaw]

First thing I'd try is bog standard paraffin.

Rik

[Former MemberParticipant @formermember12892]

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[Bo’sunParticipant @bosun58570]

Hi Rik,

Easier said than done. Bog standard Paraffin doesn't seem to exist. At least not around here anymore. I've tried greenhouse Paraffin, but that was even worse. Back in the "good old days", Esso Blue and Alladin Pink worked fine.

[Bo’sunParticipant @bosun58570]

Hello br,

As I said to Rik, buying standard paraffin (in small quantities anyway) doesn't seem to be an option anymore. Garages don't have it, and the likes of B&Q have put the Ironmonger out of business. I guess, depending on where you are, it's not used a great deal anymore. The Tilley lamp does seem more fickle than the Primus stove.

[Former MemberParticipant @formermember12892]

[This posting has been removed]

[Andy CarlsonParticipant @andycarlson18141]

New mantles are not as good as old ones… but using thorium is frowned upon nowadays I believe. This may be part of your issue – new ones are less bright and more 'warm white' in my experience.

However if you have pulsing then it's not the main problem, but I guess 'a little' is open to interpretation – they probably all do this to some extent between a barely noticeable fluctuation in the sound at one extreme and going completely out at the other.

You've already changed the vapouriser which is the usual answer to this issue so I think I'd be tempted to try some other paraffin – it's probably the least effort next option… and even if it doesn't solve the problem it will get used eventually. My last lot was Bartoline from 'Go Outdoors'… if they are still going in the current situation…

[OldironParticipant @oldiron]

I have a large collection of Tilley lamps and they run best on standard parrafin. There seems to be no difference in light levels using newer style wicks.Make sure the brass filter on the bottom of the stem is clean. Also check your valve. Replace the seal in it periodically. Only fill the tank 7/8 too high a level can cause surging. I get my parrafin from a farm supplier. It is Bartoline Parrafin, 4L also sold at B&Q.

regards

Edited By Oldiron on 25/01/2021 18:03:58

[Simon Williams 3Participant @simonwilliams3]

I had need to use mine earlier in the winter, having not done so for maybe 10 years. It lit up OK but was thoroughly dim and disappointing 'till I pricked the jet by rotating the off valve very briefly. If you know the Tilley lamp you'll know what I'm failing to describe. It's the little knurled valve at the base of the vapouriser tube.

Thereafter it worked a treat. I have only ever used it on commercial grade paraffin bought from my local garage – it is now an obscene price but needs must.

My central heating repair man says that 28 second kero for domestic boilers is only paraffin by another name. Heating oil/kero is nasty stinky stuff, but that goes for the rest of a Tilley lamp too. I've not tried it yet, but I'd bet the lamp would run on heating oil. My understanding is that domestic grade paraffin is kero with some of the more unpleasant smellies taken out.

I'm assuming here we're talking the pressurised hurricane lamp. Someone has mentioned wicks above – that's a different beast.

Rgds Simon

[SamsarandaParticipant @samsaranda]

Various grades of paraffin are available on Amazon, I have used EBay before it isn’t listed anymore. Dave W

[Ian ChildsParticipant @ianchilds37813]

Pulsing is usually caused by a slight pressure loss. The gland washer on the cock is the first to go but if you have replaced the stems the rubber washer between the cock and the stem should be replaced as this often goes hard and brittle. Same for the one between the tank and the cock. The fact you have a small flame inside the manlte also suggests that you have insufficient pressure. I have only ever changed one vapouriser, the sign this has failed is the gas buring outside of the mantle. To get to the cock gland washer pull off the knob and unsrew the knurld bit. 

I cannot see why quality of the parrafin would make much difference, if sold as such all would have similar HC lengths, if it vaporises it will burn. NEVER use petrol.

The throrium free mantles burn with a yellower flame and are not as bright. They actual tilley lamp ones are bigger to compensate. The reason thorium is used on a mantle is simply because of all the elements the inventor of the mantle tried it produced the best light. It being radioactive (and not much, plus it is an alpha emiter so no harm to anyone behind glass, with a half life about 3 times the age of the universe) in incidental and unfortunate in this paranoid age.

 

There are a surprising number of pressure lamp forums out there with some useful information.

Edited By Ian Childs on 25/01/2021 20:40:23

[Ian ChildsParticipant @ianchilds37813]

Oh also check that there isn't any crud blocking the filter on the cock. The filter unscrews so the rubber behind can be replaced, this too may be sticking and starvingn it of fuel.

[Ian ChildsParticipant @ianchilds37813]

Correction: half life of throrium is 14Ga, age of universe or about 3x age of solar system.

[Nigel Graham 2Participant @nigelgraham2]

Oldiron refers to filling level.

The genuine Tilley Lamp has a safe maximum, by design – the lip of the filler bush when the lamp is standing vertically on a level surface. I imagine other makes of paraffin-lamp are similarly provided for.

It must NEVER be filled beyond that, possible anyway only by wrongly tilting the lamp backwards!

'

If you use a funnel to aid filling, I suggest if you've not already done so, fitting it with a bent or flexible spout extension, and a wire loop that hooks over the cowl. The loop holds the funnel vertically and give you both hands free for the pouring.

I serviced a Vapalux, a paraffin pressure-lamp like the Tilley brand but used in a markedly different way, and that too gives a yellowish light with a new mantle.

'

Pulsing or poor running? They should not pulse but it can indicate low pressure. There are a number of seals etc. that can wear, as listed above, and also the pump's plunger and its delivery-valve.

Spares for wick and pressure lamps? I used Base Camp, (Base-camp.co.uk), with excellent service. They even had the proper instructions for my Vapalux.

=====

How do I know about these lamps, including that safety warning about filling them?

As a Craven Pothole Club member helping operate the annual (pandemics permitting) event called the Gaping Gill Winch Meet – giving non-cavers a chance to see the huge Gaping GIll Main Shaft and Main Chamber.*

We used to use Tilley Lamps underground, to help in guiding tourists and marking their rendezvous points – and would sometimes heat pebbles on the lamp cowls, to use as hand-warmers!

Nowadays the underground lighting is all-electric, both battery hand-lamps and building-site types supplied from a gas-fuelled 110V generator on the surface; but we still like the warm glow of pressure-lamps in the members' communal tent in the evenings.

*(Ours is In August, and there is a similar event in May, run separately, by the Bradford Pothole Club. Both are currently advertised on the respective web-sites as planned. Obviously though no public events, including of course model-engineering exhibitions, traction-engine rallies and even the Great Dorset Steam Fair, can be guaranteed for 2021 in the present situation. We live in hope….)

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

When I were a youth we had a caving club cottage next to Blea Moor signal box. We had no power and no heat, but the signal box had a coal stove and tilley lamps, and the signalmen were quite glad of the company, so we spent quite a bit of time in there. Most convivial. Firemen on goods trains stopped in the loops were obliging at supplying coal, and water came from the humungous water tank, fed from a stream which crossed the line on an aqueduct.

Happy days, you'd be woken up in the middle of the night by frantic of the block bell, I'm sure they had a special code which meant wake up rather than conveying any train information. Then we'd be instructed to pull such and such, ring 4-6 or some other mantra. The light from a tilley has a much more relaxing quality than from electric.

The cottages have gone now, a detached and a pair of semis if I remember. They must have been hard times when they actually lived there miles from anywhere. I suppose the womenfolk would cadge a lift in a brake van to go shopping, better than walking to Ribblehead station which was quite a way away

[Bo’sunParticipant @bosun58570]

Good morning All,

Many thanks for your comments and suggestions.

It all seemed to go pear shaped when "Esso Blue" became impossible to get locally, so I'm erring towards the fuel. However, as suggested, checking and/or changing the seals, etc will be prudent to start with. I've ordered a couple of seal kits, so I'll update this post in due course.

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

Is TVO still obtainable, or is that slightly more expensive than diamonds these days?

Howard

[Former MemberParticipant @formermember12892]

[This posting has been removed]

[Nigel Graham 2Participant @nigelgraham2]

Duncan –

I think Blea Moor box is still in use. I am not sure of that one, but Settle Junction – controlling semaphore signals on both lines – and Dent boxes are. Probably Appleby-in-Westmoreland box as well. I can't think of any others. Settle Station box is preserved intact but not connected to anything, by the S&CR Trust.

I do like the label on a bench on the North-bound Settle station platform. Though obviously railway jargon it is the simple but welcoming, "Settle Down".

The new siding from the Helwith Bridge quarry runs onto the down line, and I don't know if there is a cross-over and loop there. If not, presumably South-bound stone trains would have first to go right up to Ribblehead or Blea Moor to run round and cross over. If so, I don't know where they are controlled from. Stone from Horton Quarry still goes out by road, and I don't know why that quarry does not have a private road down to Helwith to avoid the tight bend and arched bridges in the village.

.

That must be unique surely, keeping the Blea Moor signalmen company. Can't imagine Network Rail allowing that now.

Which club? I recall being told another's country mansion was an old railway lift-van body behind the Hill Inn!

You'll know the road from Ribblehead to Hawes passes between a cottage and a barn. For years that cottage was derelict but used by a university caving-club, and I was in a party that booked it for a week. It had no mains services, and no water supply of any sort at all. Heating was an open fire and lighting was by caravan gas-lamps screwed to the wall, the gas also supplying a few boiling-rings. It was so bad we'd have a brew then drive down to Bernie's café for breakfast and to fill the water-containers before the day's caving; returning only late at night (vi the chippy and pub). Someone has rescued the place and it is now a decent home again.

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

Hi Nigel,

Ermysteads GS Caving Club, a group of 16-18 year olds run (if that is the word for it) by the history master David Heap. Anything serious like Easgill we'd have adult supervision, but we got dispensation to go caving instead of games, so one afternoon a week we'd pile onto various motorbikes and old vans and go off on our own to do something quick and easy, without Uriah. Before I got my bike I'd go with a lad known as Weary on a 125 Bantam, which wasn't really up to 2 of us with gear, so when we got to a hill I'd get off and walk to the top of the hill. Happy days and no-one got hurt, but you'd not get away with it now. I remember coming out of a cave once where the exit was a crawl along a low passage till you got to a small hole in the roof, but it was so dark I never noticed the hole and carried on. It got lower and lower until I realised it wasn't like this when we went in and had to crawl backwards for a bit taking more notice. Then had to walk wet through (no waterproof gear in my day) across a moor back to the transport and change of clothes, by the time I got there my boot laces had frozen solid and I had a devil of a job getting them off. All good fun!

We joined forces with Kendal club after a bit, their hut has electricity and wasn't that far away so could use their cooking facilities and if they had any spare bunks we'd not bother with the Blea Moor. It was a lot closer to the Hill Inn. I seem to remember a room on the left as you went in where a lot of under age drinking went on. My first pint of bitter was in the pub at Ribblehead, I remember thinking 'do I have to get used to the taste of this?' Cost about 1s 10d, about 9p in new money. Then I went off to London Uni and it was just too far to travel in the back of a transit with no seats, so caving was a thing of the past apart from a few trips when I took scouts, with a proper guide this time.

Must have been mad!

Edited By duncan webster on 26/01/2021 23:27:02

[Clive FarrarParticipant @clivefarrar90441]

As Simon W 3 has said use C28 heating oil.

I have used it for years having come across the tip in a sea fishing mag.

No mods required just fill up and go and at 45 – 50p a litre it is very econmical.

You just need to find someone with oil heating to pull off a bit for you. I would offer you some of mine but at the opposite end of the country that does not work.

Good luck

Regards Clive

[Bo’sunParticipant @bosun58570]

Thank you Clive, I'll see what I can find locally.

[Clive FarrarParticipant @clivefarrar90441]

Look up and try your local heating oil supplier I seem to recall that my local one would sell it , fill up , your own 25 lt container if you took it along.

It had to be steel though ! I took a plastic outboard tank along , which is designed for the job and a more flammable liquid, totally stone walled . No way jose! but the steel jerry can was no problem.

this was before I had found out how to pull some from the bulk heating tank i have.

clive

[Nigel Graham 2Participant @nigelgraham2]

I must admit I was surprised to see some use heating-oil in Tilley lamps. I can understand it working in a wick lamp but had no idea it will work in a pressurised-vapour lamp.

As well as the Vapalux, I have two colliery safety-lamps (wick, not pressure).

One is a "souvenir" type, safety in name only. It works as a lamp but not as a safety-lamp as it lacks the internal gauzes and some other fittings.

The other is genuine and had been kept by an uncle who had been a Nottinghamshire miner. Unfortunately its metal label is missing. There is something of a knack to lighting it, as if you put the casing straight on and screw it down the flame dies out. It seems to need a few moments held open a little to warm the "chimney". It does not give much light but I think was a type used primarily as a gas indicator rather than work illuminant.

====

Hello Duncan.

That memory sent me to my bookshelves and the copies of the guide-books! Great Douk Cave? (On the slopes above the Hill Inn. Big resurgence entrance in large shake-hole, fine, easy stream-way eventually lowering upstream to low crawls pass under two or three entrances in the clints.)

Ah, a student of the indomitable David Heap, eh? I know the name, and have read his Potholing [In? / Below?] the Northern Pennines in the days when men were men even in their school-days, could re-light a 'Premier' acetylene lamp under a waterfall, and ended up with knackered knees from years of frequent crawling on sharp scallops in cold streams before knee-pads were invented! (I recall his book waxes a bit lyrical about the discomforts, but perhaps his knees survived.)

Did you go to Norway with him? Some years ago I was in a team that visited one area he had. It involved a long drive along a gravel road half-way round the country's largest lake, Rossvatnet, to a hamlet near the marble band we explored. I was told – directly by or only second-hand from someone (possibly a former Ermysteds pupil?) who has carried out a lot of original cave-exploring in Norway – that when Mr. Heap and the boys were there, there was no road and they had to wait for two very windy days until the lake waters were calm enough to be crossed in a small boat.

I was also told that on one of his EGS caving expeditions to Norway, the guard was very reluctant to let them off the train at the remote rural station, it being dark and snowing out there!

You weren't on these expeditions, were you?

Oh the memories that arise when I catch a whiff of acetylene…

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