Forgotten engineering techniques

[pgk pgkParticipant @pgkpgk17461]

According to legend the London to Croydon vacuum railway use leather and tallow to seal the horizontal strip of the vacuum pipe that pulled the train. When the Croydon Pumping station was fired up in the morning then all the rats that had been chewing on the seal were sucked in .. and it rained rats over Croydon for the next half hour…

[Russell EberhardtParticipant @russelleberhardt48058]

Posted by daveb on 11/01/2015 23:30:34:

I'm fairly sure that Talc has not been used in 'Talcum Powder' for a number of years. Natural Talc contains Asbestos. The modern replacement for this material is processed vegetable starch.

Dave

Talcum powder is finely ground talc. It doesn't contain asbestos. I'll continue to use it on my files and the bicycle inner tubes.

There was a scare many years ago when a number babies died, apparently after inhaling talcum powder. Although it was initially assumed to be the talc it was later found that the cause was a bacteriological contamination in the packaging plant. However like many scares the initial idea has stuck.

There are an amazing variety of uses for talc, the biggest consumer being the automotive industry. This gives some interesting examples, being used in everything from jelly babies to oil tankers.

Russell.

[Jens Eirik Skogstad 1Participant @jenseirikskogstad1]

Dust mask from Eastern Europe was made of fabric from asbestos in Soviet era. Wondered how many died to protect against dust with dust mask ..

[davebParticipant @daveb17630]

Posted by Ian S C on 12/01/2015 10:24:52:

Can't remember where I heard/read it, it refered to a factory in England over one hundred years ago, and the use of stale beer as cutting fluid on lathes, and collecting the slops from the local pubs.

Ian S C

This was one of the older scams, they were drinking the stuff, made a nice chaser for the metal polish.

Dave

[Larry Coleman 1Participant @larrycoleman1]

Lofty & John

did you see those pictures of the cylinder squares I made here. The small on was machined on my lathe then I case hardened it. Placed it on a mandrel and cylindrical ground it on my surface grinder. the second one the bigger of the two was turned on my lathe no hardening no grinding. The point I was trying to get across was if the outside diameter is parallel and the end machined in the same setting because it rotates it is perfectly square. It does not have to be hardened and ground but it is a plus.

Now piston gudgeon pins are usually not ground at the ends but would still be very close. I think they would be centreless ground.

Now in regards to the Asbestos debate I was involved in a union enquiry here in Aust. I have never heard so much Torres excreta in my life. I will try and get the quote for you but the joint action was a group of people reading from a script to extract money from the asbestos industry.

What about Silicosis. You breath silica when you drive down a dirt road.

Fibre glass fibres still in use today

Cement powder you live in cement houses.

plastisisers which are carcinogenic Your car is full of it.

Breathing Oxygen will oxidize your tissue and eventually kill you.

My what a bunch of scared little rabbits we are !!!!!!!!!!!!

I suppose nuclear power scares us to but if we still keep pumping CO2 into the atmosphere some more trees will grow. One major VOLCANO brings that undone in a day.

Then theres the ultimate crap of all time Ta Da "Climate change" and "Global warming" What a load of absolute crap.

The whole thing is designed to employ scientists to try and find a saviour that is impossible to find. The climate has been changing for millions of years. And the global warming theory is what it is, A THEORY,

Do you know how to find a uranium mine. Answer with a gieger counter. So why not put the waste back down the mine it came out of.

Now don't take offence with any thing I have just said because that is only my opinion and is not meant to ridicule any one.

Larry

[Larry Coleman 1Participant @larrycoleman1]

Now that I have thrown the pebel in the pond I will tell you about something that happened here just recently.

In a city called Gladstone they were dredging the port for a big LPG gas loading facility for ships. Now that same port is a coal loading facility and has been for years. One of the problems was that black coal dust was found on the roofs of homes as well as landing in the water.

When they started dredging the harbor fish were being caught with red spots or blood spots. Some of the local fisherman ended up in Hospital with what was called fish handlers disease.

I was at the uni one day and a professor told me to contact Professor Schindler in the US because they had the same problem near a shale oil project in Canada.

So out of curiosity I did get in contact with him and he told me the fish disease was Vibreosis ( Common name is cholera ) this is a notifiable disease and the alarm bells should have been ringing laud.

Now I kicked up one hell of a stink at a public meeting here in Rocky and no one would listen. I decided to do some more home work and I contacted a marine biologist close here that I knew personally and asked the question. Was that disease Vibreosis or have I got it wrong. The answer was. You must realize that my funding comes from the Government and I can not speak out on that issue.

That disease which had the potential of killing hundreds of people and wiped out the fishing industry there was never reported. Because of the dollar factor.

Edited By Larry Coleman 1 on 12/01/2015 15:21:05

[Larry Coleman 1Participant @larrycoleman1]

Getting back to machining that beer lathe coolant is a good Idea

I like that.

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

Because of the dollar factor

David Bellamy disappeared from the BBC when he said he didn't believe in Globul Warming. The phone simply stopped ringing

Kinda amusing that there's a "Democracy" series on the beeb at the moment, I bet they don't invite Tony Blair to participate, lol

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

With respect Larry, when I was a teenager I saw the decline and end of a chap with silicosis from working on a cement plant for many years. Being the 70s he didn't get any big payouts.

As for climate change, suffice to say that I probably know as much about climate change as most people here know about engineering. I won't bore you all, as I suppose that by the time I can say 'I told you so' we all will be dead and gone.

Neil

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 12/01/2015 16:18:55:

As for climate change, suffice to say that I probably know as much about climate change as most people here know about engineering. I won't bore you all, as I suppose that by the time I can say 'I told you so' we all will be dead and gone.

.

Neil,

[speaking or myself] … Whilst I have no doubt that mankind is contributing to climate change; I remain unconvinced that we understand the process sufficiently well to reverse it; or even to stop the runaway.

You are very welcome to persuade me [on or off the forum] if you have the evidence.

MichaelG.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Michael,

I share your doubts; I think our priority going forward is adaptation, but we can't ignore mitigation, if only to try and limit the rate of change if not the extent.

This is pretty much the definitive review of the overall evidence for anthropogenic climate change.

… but this ain't engineering!

Neil

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 12/01/2015 20:21:28:

This is pretty much the definitive review of the overall evidence for anthropogenic climate change.

.

Thanks for the link, Neil

I shall read it with great interest.

… and will refrain from further comment on the matter, here.

MichaelG.

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

That's the problem with Globul Warming, each side is a BELIEF

Unfortunately governments have picked a side, no doubt for their own nefarious purposes

Arctic summers ice-free 'by 2013' !!!!!!

The BBC being an integral part of this hokum and junk science

The only real truth is:

There aint nobody who's got a clue which way the coin wil fall, nor even the extent of influence man has on these planetary processes

They can't even predict a 2 horse race at Kempton yet, never mind the bluddy weather

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

“The balance of evidence suggests that there is a discernible human influence on global climate.”

There's no government money for the opposite viewpoint, so guess what? They all say it's true!

That's the fundamental problem now, one side gets shedloads of cash for saying God exists, the other side gets nowt for saying he doesn't exist, and the bottom line is neither side actually knows

There's loads of circumstantial evidence though

[Clive HartlandParticipant @clivehartland94829]

I'll throw in a starter for you:- All the weather functions on this planet are Solar powered, that is sunshine. The Sun warms the water which evaporates and climbs into the atmosphere and is then shifted in vapour (Cloud) form where it meets cold air and precipitates. The heated air also rises and is spread across the planet assisted by the Corriallis effect of the rotation of the Planet. Common names for the zones of high winds are the Roaring 40 fourties. both North and south of the Equator. Used to good effect by Clipper ships. The seas are affected by temperature and cold water dropping to the sea bed makes currents that rotate around the oceans and the world. This is all self feeding and the only variation is the 11 years cycle of the Sun and severe sun spot activity. The creation of CO2 is also ongoing and also volcanic action has a great effect when clouds of dust and ash circulate in the upper atmosphere blotting out the Sun, sometimes for years. (Think the possible demise of Dinosaures)

Pollution, man made is something else like Ozone but the planet will heal itself eventually.

Clive

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

I actually worked this out once from various wikisites

If you put all the worlds known energy reserves into huge bonfire and put a match to it the amount of energy released was less than 3 days worth of solar energy hitting the earth

As far as I'm concerned we ain't worth more than a hill 'o beans where planetary events are concerned

[Danny M2ZParticipant @dannym2z]

OK Larry and Clive et al.

Larry, A friend of mine has a son who is an environmental scientist (CSRIO). He investigated the fish-kills in Gladstone, Qld. and suddenly the info dried-up, was censored or whatever. Even his father conceded that big-business (mining exports) mean more to vested interests than the poor punters who live there.

(For the rest of the world, just google Eddie Obeid to see what happens when corruption hits the greed of some Australian ministers).

Clive et al, I actually do believe that the climate is changing, but do resent the fact that us poor bunnies are copping the blame for what may well be a natural event dictated by forces over which us Earthlings have very little control.

Who copped the blame back in the days when the Thames and most of the rivers froze over? **LINK**

What is more of a personal worry is that this forum could degenerate into a debate on climate change when I am more interested in the forgotten engineering techniques of yesteryear.

The tallow stuff has been very interesting btw. In today's age of precision surface grinding, dare I mention scraping as a way to finish a surface? I have actually tried it but what a pita to learn! The old guys must have spent a lifetime learning that skill.

* Danny M *

 

Edited By Danny M2Z on 13/01/2015 03:36:14

[stewart woodParticipant @stewartwood82335]

HI and a happy new year to all . I want to say how much I have enjoyed the recent discussion about CC AND HOW passionate we all are about it . I read this site most nights , but spent most of my time reading the climate change posts last night , I love the engineering bits too {lost skills } specially . Thanks again to all keep up the good work Stewart

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Can we get this thread back somewhere close to the heading, no wonder these techniques get forgotten if things keep going off topic.

Anymore CC posts may be deleted.

Jason

[Russell EberhardtParticipant @russelleberhardt48058]

Jason,

Perhaps we should have a forum section for non-engineering discussions, rants, and general playing as such things obviously generate much interest.

Russell.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Personally I'm happy to read and keep an eye on subjects that are related to ME and MEW but don't want to waste my time having to moderate subjects that have little to do with the site.

I'm sure there are forums that adequately cover all these other subjects where anyone can go to talk about them.

J

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Danny M2Z on 13/01/2015 03:35:27:

… I am more interested in the forgotten engineering techniques of yesteryear.

… In today's age of precision surface grinding, dare I mention scraping as a way to finish a surface? I have actually tried it but what a pita to learn! The old guys must have spent a lifetime learning that skill.

.

Danny,

I think you would enjoy the book that I linked in this previous thread.

[and, perhaps here it will get a better response than my last attempt]

MichaelG.

[Bodgit Fixit and RunParticipant @bodgitfixitandrun]

We had to learn scraping as part of our apprenticeship. It has come in useful on several occasions since. Especially on things like car cylinder heads prior to refitting cos I couldn't afford to have them skimmed. it took hours but left a real sense of achievement.

Edited By Bodgit Fixit and Run on 13/01/2015 09:00:23

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Given my professional background, It's very hard for me not to respond to such comments; just as an engineer who saw a dangerous design would have a duty to point it out!

This forum should be treated like the dinner table. Don't discuss politics, religion or climate change.

But just one matter of fact I'd like to correct, before I shut up.

> David Bellamy disappeared from the BBC when he said he didn't believe in Globul Warming. The phone simply stopped ringing

He stopped after he stood against John Major for Parliament. At least that's what David told me.

If anyone does want to engage me in futile debate about climate change, you can post a comment on my (underused) blog here.

Neil

Edited By Neil Wyatt on 13/01/2015 09:16:14

[Bob Brown 1Participant @bobbrown1]

I can remember scraping white metal bearings to fit a shaft with engineers blue to highlight the high spots having re-metaled the bearing and machined to within a few thou, quite time consuming. I have seen big marine diesel engine journals scraped to improve crankshaft deflection (these things bend even the one in your car), journals 2+ feet in diameter, white metal coming off in large very thin strips, it's nice to see experts at work.

Face plates that are scraped are made in threes to ensure the surface is "flat" probably another dying skill.

Bob

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