Faircut lathe tidy up

[Brian MorehenParticipant @brianmorehen85290]

I always use a centre drill to start then a small pilot hole a gradually open the hole up , tis seems to work fine for me ,

I think the drill tends to orbit or wobble when drilling with large size drills is because the point is probably not perfect .

I once had a number of motor armatures with 1/2 shafts that had sheared of and had to be drilled out these were centre drilled and a 15/32 New Morse taper drill used worked perfect. Used a Morse taper to cut out the the length of a drill and chuck which added length , The largest drill i have is 3/4 anything above that gets bored out.

Regards Brian

[Andy CarlsonParticipant @andycarlson18141]

Hi Jake,

My tailstock certainly needed alignment when I first got the lathe. IIRC it was aiming low and off to one side.

I think it's pretty impossible to make it perfect in real use because it needs to reach across the cross slide so I usually find that I have quite a lot of the barrel sticking out, which naturally causes it to droop. Several things can help – once the tailstock is adjusted then most come down to maximising rigidity – less barrel sticking out, shorter drill, eliminate the chuck by using drills with integral Morse tapers (not sure how easy these are to buy but I have several from a garage clearance). Doing the barrel clamp up (without actually locking it) can help a bit too.

Probably the best bet is to make things as rigid as poss and then use the biggest possible centre drill to start the hole. If this is rigidly held then it should make a concentric hole even if the tailstock aim is off because it will work like a boring tool… but your description of 'orbiting' does not convey an impression of rigidity.

Bigger drills will be longer so rigidity becomes even more of a challenge so it's essential then to start the hole with something short and rigid.

I don't think I'd go up to a 3/4 drill in the tailstock on my lathe. As a very rough rule of thumb I would not rely on the taper to hold for any drills that are bigger than the opening of the taper itself. So 1/2 inch is the biggest I've used at that end of the lathe.

One more thing springs to mind… it's possible for the headstock alignment on the Faircut to be wrong. The headstock is held down by one bolt underneath in the middle. There is (should be) also a locating pin at the back of the headstock at the right hand end. If the pin is missing (mine is) then the whole headstock can rotate around the single fixing bolt especially when doing stuff that causes sideways force like milling. If the pin is present then the alignment should be constant… either always right or always wrong. You can check the alignment using a DTI (clock gauge) or better by making a test cut and then measuring to see if you made a parallel bar or a taper.

Regards, Andy

[Jacob LeonidouParticipant @jacobleonidou84012]

So i seem to be cutting fine with centre drills, it's something i notice with larger diameter drillbits. I imagine it's because of the wider contact point, but i do think the tailstock might be skewed (if the headstock is not, ill have to check for said locking pin). I don't think there is any skew adjustment as the locking mechanism self centres it when tightened. It's a pity as i dont feel super confident drilling holes, but i can look into it a little more and potentially solve the problem.

My tooling arrived after waiting a month, but luckily i was refunded so i cant complain. Not bad quality for chinesium, im quite happy. Used some feeler gauges as shims and they look like they were made for them. After messing around with different combinations i got my centre height spot on. Also cut out the little shelf in the tool holder which is a pity as i wont be able to reposition as easily, but i had no choice. I also noticed that there are three different 'holes/dimples' on the top of the cross slide. Are these for set positioning? You might be able to see where i had used a 4mm drillbit to lock the toolpost into one of those holes.

I'm still not loving the surface finish. Experimented by doubling the speed and no great improvement. Am i doing something wrong by turning with the point at 90 degrees? Should i have it on a bit of an angle so it cuts with a softer radius? Or should i buy on of those circle insert finishing tools?

[Brian MorehenParticipant @brianmorehen85290]

Hi Jake.

Not quite clear how you can mill a slot in the end of a bar if held in the chuck , Yes you can mill a slot of centre if you use the mill in the chuck and clamp the bar to hight on your cross slide you can mill the slot where you want it .

Yes Glanze Tipped tools are great for getting a good finish

Good luck Brian

[Andy CarlsonParticipant @andycarlson18141]

Hi Jake,

Have you tried grinding and using HSS cutting tools? I very rarely use carbide insert tooling and when I do they behave very differently from HSS. The usual advice is that carbide is for modern, fast, rigid machines. I use it only when trying to cut something difficult like cast iron or when I want to use my very long, thin boring tool.

I'm puzzled why you are having issues with your drills not going where you want them. If the centre drill is working OK then the point of your bigger drill should not be playing any part until you are a few mm deep… by which point the full width of the drill should be engaged so there should be no opportunity for it to wander.

Are you using a big enough centre drill? Another option is to step the drill size up gradually – the load on the drill is a function of cross sectional area so drilling, say, 7mm and then 10mm would share the work equally between the two drills. Don't pay too much attention to YouTube videos of bigger lathes that can dive straight in with a 1 inch drill.

[Jacob LeonidouParticipant @jacobleonidou84012]

Posted by Brian Morehen on 21/07/2020 12:33:29:

Hi Jake.

Not quite clear how you can mill a slot in the end of a bar if held in the chuck , Yes you can mill a slot of centre if you use the mill in the chuck and clamp the bar to hight on your cross slide you can mill the slot where you want it .

Yes Glanze Tipped tools are great for getting a good finish

Good luck Brian

I was referring to Andy's milling attachment, brian. Check it out, it's pretty cool.

[Jacob LeonidouParticipant @jacobleonidou84012]

I think it's a mixture of perhaps inexperience and poor adjustment of the tailstock. I do step up gradually, but perhaps not as gradual as i should. I suspect my headstock is not approaching the stock perpendicular to the horizontal axis (if that makes any sense), but i haven't checked yet. Either way i'll keep tuning it.

As for the tooling i think the issue is the nose radius of the inserts. It cuts fine even at low speeds, however the point is not conducive to a nice finish AFAIK. Ill buy some HSS and grind a softer point and see where that takes me. Same principal as the circular insert tooling, i might even buy one to test it out. I did get this entire set for free so i cannot complain.

Cut up and bent a few spanners today. I think they make really nice levers. I'm honestly so tired of picking up a spanner every time i need to lock or unlock something.

[Andy CarlsonParticipant @andycarlson18141]

I like the thing with the spanner – I've never thought of abusing my toys in that way.

On my lathe the tailstock dovetail locking nut is drilled and tapped for a simple lever made from round bar that screws in – same diameter as the lever in the barrel clamp. I've freed mine up so that I can take the lever out when I want to otherwise I cant take the tailstock off the bed without removing the leadscrew handwheel. You may find a threaded hole in one of the flats on your nut (or maybe not if it has been swapped).

I always keep a 3/8 Whitworth ring spanner handy (pre-war size so almost exactly 18mm A/F) – that size crops up all over the place on my lathe.

[Brian MorehenParticipant @brianmorehen85290]

Hi Jake .

I have a vice that has been made to fit my top slide . So you fit a angle block onto the cross slide and then the top slide fit to your angle block fit the vice to your top slide and you have adjustable milling Attachment

Drilling from your tailstock if you have any brocken brills that are shorter in length like Blacksmith stub drills this decreases the length of overhang , I also made a insert to fit into my thee point steady with a guide for the drill that I was using for extra support near what i was drilling if in the chuck

Regards Brian

[Brian MorehenParticipant @brianmorehen85290]

Hi Jacob Hope you are O/K Please Find Photo of my lathe set for Milling a Slot Regards Brian.

[Jacob LeonidouParticipant @jacobleonidou84012]

Posted by Andy Carlson on 22/07/2020 08:28:56:

I like the thing with the spanner – I've never thought of abusing my toys in that way.

On my lathe the tailstock dovetail locking nut is drilled and tapped for a simple lever made from round bar that screws in – same diameter as the lever in the barrel clamp. I've freed mine up so that I can take the lever out when I want to otherwise I cant take the tailstock off the bed without removing the leadscrew handwheel. You may find a threaded hole in one of the flats on your nut (or maybe not if it has been swapped).

I always keep a 3/8 Whitworth ring spanner handy (pre-war size so almost exactly 18mm A/F) – that size crops up all over the place on my lathe.

It was only $1 from the hardware store so I didn't feel guilty. I actually spent 15 minutes looking through a box full off odd old spanners and couldn't bring myself to chop anything up. I have a 3/8w spanner laying around also for a nice snug fit.

I ended up getting some HSS tooling and I ground a much rounder radius which didn't seem to improve the surface finish too much. Might have to just leave with it as it is. I'm expecting shiny cuts and I think that just not possible with this equipment.

[Jacob LeonidouParticipant @jacobleonidou84012]

Posted by Brian Morehen on 22/07/2020 21:38:00:

Hi Jake .

I have a vice that has been made to fit my top slide . So you fit a angle block onto the cross slide and then the top slide fit to your angle block fit the vice to your top slide and you have adjustable milling Attachment

Drilling from your tailstock if you have any brocken brills that are shorter in length like Blacksmith stub drills this decreases the length of overhang , I also made a insert to fit into my thee point steady with a guide for the drill that I was using for extra support near what i was drilling if in the chuck

Regards Brian

Good suggestion on the broken drill bits I will have to stop throwing them out. I think that my tailstock is still off a tiny amount which is why the drill bits orbit when turning. They are drilling ever so slightly off centre.

Your lathe looks incredible. I had always thought about buying a milling attachment just for really simple stuff but seeing yours im thinking I could just as easily make one. Id just have to find a vice/slide.

[Andy CarlsonParticipant @andycarlson18141]

Nice setup Brian. Does the knob poking out of the motor indicate a repulsion start motor?

@Jake: The compound slide dodge would be a little different for the 'Senior' because the compound is different from Brian's – on ours the pivot sticks out to the side of the compound. I think the angle plate dodge would still work but would perhaps be less rigid than Brian's version. It does have the advantage of allowing a choice of angles for the slide feed, unlike many milling slides which only go straight up and down. Then you 'simply' need to figure out how to attache a vice (or the job iself) to your compound

I got a vertical slide with my lathe so haven't needed to try the compound thing but I might give it a go some time.

You'll also be needing some 'T' nuts to fit your slots… or maybe modified coach bolts. Most modern off the shelf 'T' nuts will need modification to fit the rather shallow Faircut cross slide slots.

[Brian MorehenParticipant @brianmorehen85290]

Hi Andy

The black handled knob is for revesing the motor first switch of and then lift lever up sitch on motor reversed.

The vice on the compound slide was made to the compound slide size and is held in place with 3 Allen Screws on each side that have had holes bored into the slide works great.

Best Regards to both of you

[Andy CarlsonParticipant @andycarlson18141]

Posted by Brian Morehen on 10/08/2020 18:49:45:

The black handled knob is for revesing the motor first switch of and then lift lever up sitch on motor reversed.

Any chance of a photo of the data plate on your motor?

On the subject of milling again… yesterday evening I broke my second cutter in a week while milling in a lathe (two different lathes). In this case it was the backlash in the Faircut that allowed the 6mm cutter to dig itself into the lump of aluminium that I was working on. The other one happened was while using a Proxxon carbide cutter to cut silver steel in the Cowells – I think this was just down to a lack of rigidity and the slow spindle speed.

Checking in the light of day this morning, it seems that the cutter that broke on the Faircut was also carbide. I need to source some new HSS cutters. I know that carbide is not keen on being battered by vibrations caused by a lack of rigidity but when carbide is what you have, carbide is what you use.

[egaParticipant @ega]

Posted by Jacob Leonidou on 10/08/2020 12:16:51:

…

I ended up getting some HSS tooling and I ground a much rounder radius which didn't seem to improve the surface finish too much. Might have to just leave with it as it is. I'm expecting shiny cuts and I think that just not possible with this equipment.

I noticed this and wondered whether you have tried GHT's advice of setting the tool round so that it almost rubs for the finishing cut.

[Jacob LeonidouParticipant @jacobleonidou84012]

Yeah andy i see what youre saying. I could even take off the compound slide and use the cross slide as the base, i'd have to look at it more closely. Modified coach bolts are a good idea, it never occurred to me until now.

Pity you've snapped two cutters in such a short amount of time, bit of bad luck for you. I don't know a great deal about milling but i do know that carbide is not so forgiving when it comes to shock. Probably doesn't help that you were machining aluminium. I know it has a tendency to grab or even weld itself to the cutter.

[Jacob LeonidouParticipant @jacobleonidou84012]

Posted by ega on 11/08/2020 10:57:08:

Posted by Jacob Leonidou on 10/08/2020 12:16:51:

…

I ended up getting some HSS tooling and I ground a much rounder radius which didn't seem to improve the surface finish too much. Might have to just leave with it as it is. I'm expecting shiny cuts and I think that just not possible with this equipment.

I noticed this and wondered whether you have tried GHT's advice of setting the tool round so that it almost rubs for the finishing cut.

It does make a difference, albeit not as great a difference as i expected. I'm going to experiment with rounding the nose more and more until i get more favourable results. I was experimenting a little more and it seems to be improving slightly. Im tempted to buy a circle insert cutter but it would be no better than HSS ground to the same radius.

[Jacob LeonidouParticipant @jacobleonidou84012]

So now that i've modified the toolpost and worked out the right combination of shims i'm quite pleased with how quickly i can change tools. This entire time i thought this type of toolpost was rubbish until i realised its effectively quick change as you can take all the clamping pressure off the tool by loosening the tightening lever. The three socket head screws dont require adjusting each time. I also added a golf ball to make it easier on my palm.

[Roger BestParticipant @rogerbest89007]

I love the golf ball.

There is a club down the road, they tend to knock them out of the grounds…..

[Andy CarlsonParticipant @andycarlson18141]

Nice handle Jake

I'm not sure about the clamp screw thing. I wouldn't advise doing that with a Faircut cast toolpost – I've seen photos of several where the rear edge of the toolpost has broken away. My assumption is that this is caused by forgetting to loosen the tool clamping screws before tightening the nut on the toolpost stud. If the tool is thicker than the previous one this will put the toolpost onto an angle and put pressure on the back edge of the toolpost. Probably not an issue with a steel toolpost but not recommended for a casting.

Milling… I always take the attitude that a milling machine is trying to damage itself, the job, me or all of the above. It needs rock solid clamping of the job and the cutter and excellent rigidity. Milling in the lathe is definitely compromising some of those things. If you have backlash in your slides then milling will find it and either push the job away or (worse) dig the cutter into it. Cutters can also dig in axially (think of them as a self tapping screw). So, yes, milling in the lathe is possible but it needs a lot of care and scaled down expectations.

Regards, Andy

[Brian MorehenParticipant @brianmorehen85290]

Hi Jake Like the Golf Ball Handle

Your Lathe cutting tool has a sharp point that is giving you the cut that is also giving you the appearance of a thread when you have made a cut. Try and grind a small flat onto that point and take things very slowly on a scarp piece of bar and see if this gives you a smooth shiny cut

Good luck Brian

[Brian MorehenParticipant @brianmorehen85290]

Hi Jake Like the Golf Ball Handle

Your Lathe cutting tool has a sharp point that is giving you the cut that is also giving you the appearance of a thread when you have made a cut. Try and grind a small flat onto that point and take things very slowly on a scarp piece of bar and see if this gives you a smooth shiny cut

Good luck Brian

[Jacob LeonidouParticipant @jacobleonidou84012]

Posted by Roger Best on 18/08/2020 11:16:59:

I love the golf ball.

There is a club down the road, they tend to knock them out of the grounds…..

Haha you will be spoilt for choice.

[Jacob LeonidouParticipant @jacobleonidou84012]

Yeah Andy I see what you're saying. In my case the tool post is mild steel and all the tools are the same height (10mm). So locking the tool post back down is only going to apply roughly the same amount of force as when the caps crews were first adjusted. Im actually quite pleased as it's negated the need for a QCTP (for now).

I think what you're saying is that you need to invest in a mill

[Author]

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