Engineers blue alternatives

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

I see the spray version DOES NOT comply with EU regs so looks like you won't find it locally in the UK or Europe. No problem getting teh Rocol one.

[petro1headParticipant @petro1head]

Posted by JasonB on 19/05/2017 13:23:05:

I see the spray version DOES NOT comply with EU regs so looks like you won't find it locally in the UK or Europe. No problem getting teh Rocol one.

That would explin it. I have found some Rocol on ebay **LINK** which is about £6 cheaper than the link due to having to add VAT and delivery bringing it to over £40.

Thanks again Jason for pointing me towards Rocol

Edited By petro1head on 19/05/2017 13:30:19

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Do you really need a spray? how big are the areas you want to cover? a bit of foam on a stick or even a folded rag will cover a large area quite easily

[petro1headParticipant @petro1head]

Posted by JasonB on 19/05/2017 13:32:39:

Do you really need a spray? how big are the areas you want to cover? a bit of foam on a stick or even a folded rag will cover a large area quite easily

Prob not but will find it more usefull than what I currently have

[Ex contributorParticipant @mgnbuk]

Or Cromwell Industrial Supplies if there is one near you

**LINK**

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

I just use whatever spray paint I have kicking around the shed. Blue hammertone works well. If you don't prep the surface it wipes off afterwards with acetone, thinners or whatever is around and a bit of elbow grease..

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Sharpie for laying out small things, spray primer for big things – dries quicker tahn topcoats.

Stuart's Micrometer blue for my rare excursions into 'scraping'.

Neil

[Bob StevensonParticipant @bobstevenson13909]

Earlier this evening I was glancing thru a 'Tilgear' catalogue that is about 15 years old and wedged under the top of a bench…..it showed Edding 850 blue permanent marker for metal marking. The tip is (was?) 18mm wide and they had refills of the blue ink available.

[OuBallieParticipant @ouballie]

Tip is 1/2" wide.

Geoff – Works fine for my needs.

Edited By OuBallie on 20/05/2017 11:00:11

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 19/05/2017 22:27:04:

… spray primer for big things – dries quicker tahn topcoats….

…

^^^^ That's why he's the editor.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by Hopper on 20/05/2017 11:32:06:

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 19/05/2017 22:27:04:

… spray primer for big things – dries quicker tahn topcoats….

…

^^^^ That's why he's the editor.

If I spend my working hours editing other people's writing, I'm blowed if I will waste my leisure hours editing my own!

[Douglas JohnstonParticipant @douglasjohnston98463]

I have been trying out some scraping lately and saw on youtube that some people use a roller on the surface plate to spread the blue indicator over the surface. I was thinking about trying that but can't find any reference for the type of roller needed. There seem to be hard rubber rollers and soft rubber ones and probably ones in between. Is there a scraping mastermind out there that can recommend a suitable type of roller?

Doug

[Bill PudneyParticipant @billpudney37759]

My experience of scraping goes back to my apprenticeship in the 60s. Way back then the best results were had with a VERY light application of blue, it seems to me that any sort of roller would put on far too much. But I may be wrong, it has happened before according to The Boss.

cheers

Bill

[LainchyParticipant @lainchy]

What sort of mix of Meths and Micrometer blue? Does it actually set then? It's very oily as stock… just wondering if I can mix some before buying Dykem

[Keith LongParticipant @keithlong89920]

Seems to me that folk here are confusing two totally different products. One "engineers blue" or "layout blue", which dries to a film that them can be scribed through so that layout marks show up, and "micrometer blue" which is a greasy blue paste, doesn't dry as far as I know but remains as a greasy blue film, and which is used to determine fits between mating surfaces and in scraping. The latter would be of no use for marking out as it will rub off very easily (if messily), while the layout blue (or felt tip pen) can be used to find interference between parts as well as used for marking out.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Lainchy on 16/07/2019 11:32:09:

What sort of mix of Meths and Micrometer blue? Does it actually set then? It's very oily as stock… just wondering if I can mix some before buying Dykem

Not critical. My sample was mixed in an eggcup with a blob of Stuart's on the end of a table-knife. The dye is almost certainly Methylene Blue which dissolves readily in alcohol. Stuart's slow-drying paste is formulated stiff for scraping, but adding Meths thins it down considerably and it becomes quick drying. You can experiment for best results. Not as good as real marking blue or a decent felt tip, but worth a try. My tiny tin of Stuart's looks as if it will last me forever and I didn't feel bad about repurposing some of it.

In theory it should be possible to dissolve ball-point pen ink in the same way. In practice, more trouble than it's worth!

Dave

Edited By SillyOldDuffer on 16/07/2019 12:19:34

[AdrianRParticipant @adrianr18614]

For scraping I use Stuarts Engineers Blue. For marking up I use permanent markers. As my ancient and very nice smelling marker finally dried up I had to buy some more. I have found Wilko black permanent markers are very good, and they dont seem to worry too much about slightly oily surfaces. At £1 for for pens good value too.

As others have said, it does rub off but usually enough remains for me to finish the job. To clean up it just needs meths on a tissue.

Also the fact they do rub off is of use. Great for checking mating surfaces, it was invaluable when recently making a morse taper.

One day I am sure I will need to more complicated marking out, then I will buy the proper marking out fluid.

Adrian

[LainchyParticipant @lainchy]

Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 16/07/2019 12:18:43:

Not critical. My sample was mixed in an eggcup with a blob of Stuart's on the end of a table-knife. The dye is almost certainly Methylene Blue which dissolves readily in alcohol. Stuart's slow-drying paste is formulated stiff for scraping, but adding Meths thins it down considerably and it becomes quick drying. You can experiment for best results. Not as good as real marking blue or a decent felt tip, but worth a try. My tiny tin of Stuart's looks as if it will last me forever and I didn't feel bad about repurposing some of it.

In theory it should be possible to dissolve ball-point pen ink in the same way. In practice, more trouble than it's worth!

Dave

Edited By SillyOldDuffer on 16/07/2019 12:19:34

Cheers Dave will try some when I get a chance

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by AdrianR on 16/07/2019 12:39:16:.

…

One day I am sure I will need to more complicated marking out, then I will buy the proper marking out fluid.

 

Adrian

For me marking out was very helpful with hand-tools and for manual setting operations like centre-popping ready for the pillar drill.

Now I've got a mill I do much less marking out than before, especially since adding a DRO. Drilling with a mill I don't centre-pop, and – because the work is mounted on a precision table – I usually cut direct from the paper drawings relative to reference points established on the actual work.

Not much need to mark out now, though it does help prevent silly mistakes. For that purpose I often scratch guide marks on odd blobs of felt-tip, but it's not really proper marking out at all. Apart from blobbing, another advantage of felt-tips over proper marking fluid is colours. I have some sort of blind spot causing me to cut mirror-images and colour coding helps reduce blunders.

Marking out might be unfashionable in my workshop only because of the type of work I do. Do others find elaborate marking out useful and if so, what for?

Dave

 

Edited By SillyOldDuffer on 16/07/2019 13:09:51

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Whoops – double post deleted

Edited By SillyOldDuffer on 16/07/2019 13:13:53

[mechman48Participant @mechman48]

Posted by Bill Pudney on 16/07/2019 11:26:43:

My experience of scraping goes back to my apprenticeship in the 60s. Way back then the best results were had with a VERY light application of blue, it seems to me that any sort of roller would put on far too much. But I may be wrong, it has happened before according to The Boss.

cheers

Bill

Snap!… me too, but we used to roll up a pad of cloth into a firm ball then dab it on to the 'engineers blue' tin then dab it onto the surface plate evening it out before placing the object to be scraped on to the plate, a couple of light pushes brought up the high spots that needed scraping, repeat until 'minimum' of 25 points per sq. inch was achieved, we usually aimed for a lot more, before the charge hand accepted it.

George.

[Rik ShawParticipant @rikshaw]

Stuarts blue if I wanted to get a "witness" but for general marking out I use copper sulphate .

Rik

[Pete RimmerParticipant @peterimmer30576]

Posted by Douglas Johnston on 16/07/2019 11:04:46:

I have been trying out some scraping lately and saw on youtube that some people use a roller on the surface plate to spread the blue indicator over the surface. I was thinking about trying that but can't find any reference for the type of roller needed. There seem to be hard rubber rollers and soft rubber ones and probably ones in between. Is there a scraping mastermind out there that can recommend a suitable type of roller?

Doug

You can use a foam roller or an ink roller (plastic roller with a rubber sleeve over it). The foam gloss rollers work OK for water based spotting blues but I prefer the ink roller for oil based like stuarts. When rolling out the ink I tend to load the roller by putting a db of blue on a small plate and rolling it out then using the loaded roller to lie the part or plate.

[Douglas JohnstonParticipant @douglasjohnston98463]

Thanks for that Pete, I should probably have started a new topic rather than stick my question on the end of an old topic. My question about rollers got swamped by the previous discussion. I will see if any local arty shop has rollers I can look at otherwise it will have to be pot luck on fleabay.

Doug

[Gordon Smith 1Participant @gordonsmith1]

I got my roller and water based colour from Amazon.

Gordon

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