Electronic switch forward/reverse/stop help

[JohnMParticipant @johnm51917]

I purchased a Lathe and it had a problem already whereby the switch was not latching, forward and reverse worked but you had to hold the switch in position, releasing sent it over to stop.. I took the switch apart and the sections of contacts fell out and although I tried to re-construct it I am left with a pot full of bits. I went on the faithful auction site and got a replacement in a week or three. I think I have ordered the wrong one though as the new replacement is a 3 phase and my Lathe is a single phase. Can I use the 3 phase switch or do I need to get another one that will work with single phase? After I get an answer I have a wiring question for you too. I took lots of photos but want to double check everything before connecting it all up.

Thanks in advance

John

[JohnMParticipant @johnm51917]

[Mike PooleParticipant @mikepoole82104]

Some specific details on the item you have purchased would be helpful. A picture or details of the actual device, the info plate or data sheet would be useful. If it just a switch then it is likely it could be used on single phase but if it has a contactor it will need to be 240V.

Mike

[JohnMParticipant @johnm51917]

[JohnMParticipant @johnm51917]

1st photo shows the wires to the old switch feed wires and pairs of the forward/reverse. I have marked the pairs of wires with two different coloured cable ties.

Second and third show the replacement switch with LW26-20/3 which was sold as a three phase switch.

fourth is the old switch with a capacitor. I have several shots to show all the wiring for this switch but not sure if they are compatible?

Possibly the /3 refers to three switch positions rather than three phase?

Thanks

John

 

Edited By John Milton 2 on 17/05/2019 16:48:00

[john swift 1Participant @johnswift1]

looking at your last photo

the original switch incorperates a no volt release ( I expect the black part is a 220/240V coil )

I would of thought the 3 blue cam switch elements may of been wired like this

John

[Robert Atkinson 2Participant @robertatkinson2]

Hi,

The new switch is not suitable as it does not have a no volt release coil. This is a safety feature and it is likely that the emergency stop will not operate without it.

Robert G8RPI.

Edited By Robert Atkinson 2 on 17/05/2019 21:05:24

[JohnMParticipant @johnm51917]

Thank you both for your replies. It makes sense as there is an extra part on the top of the original switch. I guess I will be looking for a replacement as the old one does not latch. Is there a chance you could point me to a suitable replacement please? Lathe has been sitting for a month and I'm getting withdrawal symptoms now 😥 Sorry for late reply.

[JohnMParticipant @johnm51917]

I have given up looking for a new switch and despite thumbs for fingers I have rebuilt the original switch. The switch is still not latching but as is soda law the Lathe wont spin now. Probably user error I guess. OMG I struggle adding photos on this forum. Text too it seems. Does this match what you thought in your previous post and diagram John? Any help would be welcomed., chomping at the bit to actually use one of my many Lathes 😂

[AdrianRParticipant @adrianr18614]

Hi John,

Did you get it working?

I have reassembled that type of switch several times, very fiddly. Have you checked each contact is working when it should with a multimeter?

It looks like your switch is by Kraus & Naimer somewhere on the black lump should be a part number.

On page 58, Power Failure Release is what you need.

I also searched "kraus & naimer distributors uk" lots come up and they have a UK office too.

Adrian

[JohnMParticipant @johnm51917]

I'm unfortunately in ICU after a severe bout of Asthma. I am still thinking about my little switch (see above) and if anyone can point me to an article where I can find out how to connect the infernal thing I would be very grateful. I have time on my hands to read now anyway. Or should I just get an electrician to come along and hook it up properly? I don't have money to burn so doing it myself would be the best option. I put it back exactly as my original photos but maybe there is a part of the switch internals that has dropped out or possibly I have fried it? Sorry to be a pain again. Thanks in advance for your help.

John

[JohnMParticipant @johnm51917]

Posted by AdrianR on 25/05/2019 07:41:17:

Hi John,

Did you get it working?

I have reassembled that type of switch several times, very fiddly. Have you checked each contact is working when it should with a multimeter?

It looks like your switch is by Kraus & Naimer somewhere on the black lump should be a part number.

On page 58, Power Failure Release is what you need.

I also searched "kraus & naimer distributors uk" lots come up and they have a UK office too.

Adrian

YES Adrian. That's the switch. I really struggle with schematics but I am a trier. Will check out your links thank you. I will find the part number but it could be an older version.

[JohnMParticipant @johnm51917]

Switch is a

Kraus & Naimer

CA 10X

 

Hospital wi-fi will not allow me on YouTube or upload photos on this forum, #spoilsports

Edited By John Milton 2 on 27/05/2019 18:28:54

[JohnMParticipant @johnm51917]

And then I found this

https://www.model-engineer.co.uk/forums/postings.asp?th=139760

Then this

https://tinyurl.com/y235zntp

 

Edited By John Milton 2 on 27/05/2019 18:36:48

Edited By John Milton 2 on 27/05/2019 18:37:01

Edited By John Milton 2 on 27/05/2019 18:46:08

[AdrianRParticipant @adrianr18614]

Be careful if you order one, Kraus & Namer part numbers are complicated as all the switches are modular. The one above would be CA10X-A401 CA10 = 20 A switch, X = Power failure release, A401 = Motor reversing switch.

On page 26 of the tech doc you can see the schematic of the switch and how it should switch in each position. Check over your switch with a multimeter to see if it works the same as that.

Adrian

[JohnMParticipant @johnm51917]

Posted by AdrianR on 27/05/2019 19:32:59:

Be careful if you order one, Kraus & Namer part numbers are complicated as all the switches are modular. The one above would be CA10X-A401 CA10 = 20 A switch, X = Power failure release, A401 = Motor reversing switch.

On page 26 of the tech doc you can see the schematic of the switch and how it should switch in each position. Check over your switch with a multimeter to see if it works the same as that.

Adrian

I tripped the electrics at home just before I came into hospital with my multi-meter trying to test the switch in situ. Probably shorted out two wires. This link is to the exact same switch and the same problem on these forums and he had to replace the switch. I asked if he would tell me which switch worked for him as they even mention this switch could be Myford specific. I'm always looking for the easy option. Oh my days. I am not giving up but it will be a few days before I can escape from here to look.

Edited By John Milton 2 on 27/05/2019 20:20:22

Edited By John Milton 2 on 27/05/2019 20:42:31

[AdrianRParticipant @adrianr18614]

I am pretty sure it is not Myford specific as it is in the Kraus & Namer technical doc I linked. Nothing wrong with the easy option as long as it is the correct one not a bodge.

Hope you get better soon

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by John Milton 2 on 27/05/2019 18:17:10:

I'm unfortunately in ICU after a severe bout of Asthma. I am still thinking about my little switch (see above) and if anyone can point me to an article where I can find out how to connect the infernal thing I would be very grateful. I have time on my hands to read now anyway. Or should I just get an electrician to come along and hook it up properly? I don't have money to burn so doing it myself would be the best option. I put it back exactly as my original photos but maybe there is a part of the switch internals that has dropped out or possibly I have fried it? Sorry to be a pain again. Thanks in advance for your help.

John

Sorry to hear that!

Hope you are up and about again soon.

Neil

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

Silly question time!

The problem is not a loose feed to the relay in the control box, is it?

On the Warco BH600 the microswitches on the Chuck Guard, Gear Cover, and Headstock cover, control a relay in the control box behind the Headstock. I think that they are on the 24 volt circuit that feeds the worklight (Assuming that the BH600 is the same set up as my BL12 – 24 lookalike.)

HTH

Howard

[JohnMParticipant @johnm51917]

I was released tonight from ICU so I'm going to be back home very soon. I will check the relay on my release from prison. Thank you all again for helping.

[JohnMParticipant @johnm51917]

They are sending me home from Hospital tomorrow and I can't wait to be back home with my Lathe. Oh, and my family too of course. Lots to check and hopefully I can get the darned thing up and running.

[Simon Williams 3Participant @simonwilliams3]

John – hope the recovery is still on track.

Where are you, (postcode) maybe one of us with more information as to how this should work can assist hands-on?

Rgds Simon (West Gloucestershire, GL17)

[JohnMParticipant @johnm51917]

Posted by Simon Williams 3 on 29/05/2019 13:46:18:

John – hope the recovery is still on track.

Where are you, (postcode) maybe one of us with more information as to how this should work can assist hands-on?

Rgds Simon (West Gloucestershire, GL17)

Thank you, Simon, I live in Blackburn BB2 I'm not beaten yet. But this may be an in case of emergency final option for me haha

[JohnMParticipant @johnm51917]

 

Released from Hospital on Thursday and straight to work on my Lathe/s. Still no joy with the S7 even after connecting directly to the Motor. On reflection I'm going to check the fuse when I get back home just in case.

I also have a little Warco 180 It came to me with a few issues and I am sorting them out in between scratching my head getting the Myford S7 to work.

First the motor and the speed control board were not working although when I connect to my bench power supply it works fine,just not using mains power. and so this meant the previous owner had purchased a pillar drill motor and it's controls to drive the lathe, bypassing the Warco system completely. He has cut out the back of the gear cover to facilitate the external motor and belt.The Warco system has been disconnected but is still all in place so not being one to suffer something that could be made to work better I purchased a tacho from that auction site for under £10 and took out the Warco sensor and wiring loom completely and reinstalled using the replacement pillar drill motor extended wiring loom and made a bracket to hold the new sensor in place.

I'm left with a system that runs at maximum 170 rpm so i'm thinking after some research I either need a bigger belt and pulley wheel or maybe a treadmill motor that can bully it up to a faster speed. The display and the buttons plus emergency stop are now all wired into the Warco so I don't have to risk life and limb any more reaching over the Lathe to hit the stop button fixed above the motor in an emergency.

I don't yet have a variable speed system in place so will have to look into that at some point.

The reverse is not working and I'm not sure if the original forward/stop/reverse switch that came with the Warco originally will work. I seem to have lots of issues with these things so will just settle for forward and stop for now.

The Warco could possibly be sold on once it's all fixed as I don't have the room for two or even three Lathes this including the ML2/4 which has had no interest as yet.

Finally had a little play with the Warco though, just little steps at the moment and getting used to making a few cuts and this is a step in the right direction for me.

 

Edited By John Milton 2 on 04/06/2019 16:25:23

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