Electric Cars

[Glyn DaviesParticipant @glyndavies49417]

I just wondered if anybody else was mildly depressed about the prospect of having to switch to a Battery Electric Vehicle, or electric car, at some point in the not too distant future?

The energy content of petrol is about 10kW-h per litre, so a full tank, weighing 35kg, gives about 500kW-h – compare that with the 30 odd kW-h and 300+kg in a Nissan Leaf battery. I know a petrol engine is down to about 20% efficiency against 90%+ for electric motors, but our ecoboost Fords get twice the mpg of the old Cortinas of old, so maybe the 20% figure is now pessimistic. But with only a couple of litres left in the tank, I can still squirt from 50 to 70 mph as quickly as ever.

Leeds City Council has just declared a “Climate Emergency”, whatever that is, so the swing to electric is obviously here. But the idea of having to keep a constant eye on the charge level, of probably not being able to keep up with traffic as the charge depletes or the battery ages, of having to plug the blasted thing in to a socket every night, of having 320 volts ready to connect to the body shell in the event of the slightest accident – I’m really not keen.

I just think there has to be a better way. Power lines in the road with contactless connection to the car? With a small battery to cope with ‘off piste’ excursions? I’m sure that if IKB was still around, he’d come up with something better than the BEV. What do you think?

[Glyn DaviesParticipant @glyndavies49417]

[roy entwistleParticipant @royentwistle24699]

Bring back the horse

[nigel jones 5Participant @nigeljones5]

Im off to france with my caravan…2000 mile round trip. Wont be doing it in a leccy car any time soon.

[PlasmaParticipant @plasma]

Scalextric tracks all over the shop, couple of wire pick ups under the car and away we go lol.

Seriously the option of having your own private transport will be removed in due course. Based on the pollution they are talking about from tyre and brake dust the object of future efforts will be to coax us out of our own cars and onto public transport. Good luck with that one.

Me and the Dragon were only discussing this over breakfast, the speed of technology development is so great these days that things come and go much faster than ever before.

Read the article on bbc about Michigan train station and the rise and fall of the American motor trade in Detroit. Very interesting and food for thought.

Mick

[Former MemberParticipant @formermember19781]

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[Brian GParticipant @briang]

Posted by 34046 on 11/07/2019 12:36:41:

Not at all mildly depressed – all in favour.

Our Renault Zoe will save us a 15 mile round trip to the nearest petrol station plus the normal 10 minute wait to fill up.

Bill

Edited By 34046 on 11/07/2019 12:49:59

Only if you have the facility to charge at home, for me it would be a 30 mile round trip to the nearest charging station and a 75 minute wait. In reality I wouldn't be going though, as the reduced luggage space on most electric cars would mean my wheelchair wouldn't fit.

Brian

[VicParticipant @vic]

Posted by 34046 on 11/07/2019 12:36:41:

Not at all mildly depressed – all in favour.

Our Renault Zoe will save us a 15 mile round trip to the nearest petrol station plus the normal 10 minute wait to fill up.

Bill

Edited By 34046 on 11/07/2019 12:49:59

Yes agreed. I read the other day that the average mileage in the UK is 162 miles per week. I actually do quite a bit less than that. The Tesla Model S has a range of 370 miles per charge.

The latest I read on Diesel exhaust is that it now causes bladder disease. This is on top of Lung and Heart disease and Dementia. Keep petrol a bit longer if absolutely necessary but get rid of Diesel cars as soon as possible.

[BazParticipant @baz89810]

Like Fizzy I tow a caravan and I tow it with a diesel guzzling Land Rover Discovery 3, a V6 2.7 litre engine, I have no intention of going electric, now or any time in the future.

[martin perman 1Participant @martinperman1]

Posted by Brian G on 11/07/2019 12:53:17:

Posted by 34046 on 11/07/2019 12:36:41:

Not at all mildly depressed – all in favour.

Our Renault Zoe will save us a 15 mile round trip to the nearest petrol station plus the normal 10 minute wait to fill up.

Bill

Edited By 34046 on 11/07/2019 12:49:59

Only if you have the facility to charge at home, for me it would be a 30 mile round trip to the nearest charging station and a 75 minute wait. In reality I wouldn't be going though, as the reduced luggage space on most electric cars would mean my wheelchair wouldn't fit.

Brian

I have to mobility scooters to carry and my hobby in a trailer, I will stick with diesel estate thank you plus my wife and I cant afford a second hand electric vehicle, on radio 4 yesterday they discussed this subject and one chap rang in and said he bought one and all was well until it packed up and he got quoted £8000 for a battery pack for the car, I could by a good second hand diesel with that.

Martin P

Martin P

[Bob Brown 1Participant @bobbrown1]

Yet to see an Estate EV so not going to even consider one till they make estates (two cockers).

What is going to happen with all the billions of pounds lost in fuel revenue, up the road tax to £1000 plus per year. Never mind the strain on the electricity infrastructure.

[Former MemberParticipant @formermember19781]

[This posting has been removed]

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

Posted by Bob Brown 1 on 11/07/2019 13:56:42:

Yet to see an Estate EV so not going to even consider one till they make estates (two cockers).

Not looked hard enough?

Try this: **LINK**

Where there is a will, there is a way! Doubtless they would convert one for you.

[Ron ColvinParticipant @roncolvin83430]

I foresee five years from now the uptake of electric vehicles being no where near the figures being currently predicted. In fifteen years nearly every new road vehicle will be an electric.

Edited By Ron Colvin on 11/07/2019 14:17:42

[RainbowsParticipant @rainbows]

Nine out of ten journeys are just shuffling your own body to work and back, which EVs are perfectly suitable for in both range and capacity. Tesla is also making a pickup and E-vans are available which will probably start eating into cargo carrying. Imagine long distance driving will be the last niche that EVs don't eat up, or until faster and more frequent charging stations become common.

[John Paton 1Participant @johnpaton1]

I'm thinking of converting my SUV to steam power burning a blend of shredded unsolicited mail, plastic food wrapping and rendered pig fat.

0-60 in 18 seconds and no need for a horn as they can smell your approach.

in fact there could still be a role for the Sentinal steam lorries. On the road they were fuel efficient , it was. The standing idle time that made them inefficient. Now they could be used to charge batteries when the vehicle is stationary.

J

[BazParticipant @baz89810]

34046, you are correct, I am 66 this year so it will see me out, most probably my daughter as well. I need a large estate to get my locos in plus all the garden rubbish up to the tip, I have yet to see a large electric estate car. Son in law works for a well known central heating boiler manufacturer and his current company car is a Volvo XC60, he is due for a change and has asked for a Toyota RAV4 Hybrid, he says the RAV4 has a lot more “ toys” than the Volvo but is not as comfortable for a full days driving, he has only had one for a couple of days test drive so far, so no real experience yet.

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

Over the last 60 years, the compression ignition engine has provided me with a fair livelihood. It has changed almost beyond recognition in the last 35 years in terms of cleanliness (freedom from leakage) reliability, durability and emissions.

Yet, I have never owned one, mainly because of the capital cost vs life time cost ratio, for our family lifestyle.

Currently, we run two small Euro 6 compliant petrols which, with careful driving almost do 70 mpg.

Battery technology is advancing at an incredible rate. Friends who had a "first generation" electric car had a range of less than 30 miles. Now nearly 400 miles per charge is possible, but at a huge price.

If we all changed our cars to electric power, the UK national grid would probably fail if every one was put on charge at the same time, let alone powering all the other electrical devices across the country. So the infrastructure needs to be improved greatly (not just installing more charging points ).

Thinking about commercial vehicles, hauliers make money on ton miles per unit of energy ( used to be ton miles per gallon ) Batteries are heavy, even post lead acid, and take up a lot of space. So there is unlikely to be a lot of enthusiasm to exchange payload for a battery..

"Electric vehicles are emission free", if we are concerned about brake and tyre dust, they are are not going to be totally clean Regenerative braking will help, as will driving style, but there will still be some dust. And there will still be emissions from the power station, unless it is solar, wind, wave or tidal powered.

What emissions will be generated in producing the batteries; and in the replacement vehicles for our current "dirty" ones?

Beware of politicians, who do not understand the whole problem, and vested interests, making promises for others to keep! Think of the way in which Brussels set targets without ANY idea of what is involved in meeting them, like the 10 fold reduction in particulate emissions..

Sometimes the emissions that we most need to ban are those of politicians who lack knowledge and understanding.

Just let the Engineers solve the problem once it has been noted; don't but put arbitrary deadlines for finding a solution.

Howard.

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

The one thing we have no shortage of is people. The end result has to be fewer people whether it is a sensible planned approach over the next 50 years or a catastrophe in 70.

70 years ago new parents just assumed things would bet better and their child would have an ever improving life that would go on for generations – just as parents had done 500 years before. In seventy years from now the loco/traction engine you lovingly made to pass down through the generations will be seen as a valuable source of rare copper and brass and scrapped so rather than make it nicely just make it heavy.

In thirty years most new cars will be electric and available only for hire from communal pools.

I can't decide whether it is better to get a rural house with some land to plant trees on the north side of my solar farm or a town house near all amenities so I can get everywhere with my zimmer frame.

[Former MemberParticipant @formermember53456]

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[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

You're right! Showing my age, our parents did not have the multiple modern aids that make our life so easy.

IF you had a washing machine, YOU turned the handle. No Tumble Drier, just a hand powered mangle. TV was for a very favoured, rich, few, near London. A mains powered radio was real luxury. They lacked the modern aids that are taken for granted. Leisure time was short, they were too busy growing food. Local travel was by bicycle. Cars were few, by modern standards, slow, unreliable, not very durable, "dirty" and fuel greedy.

But we knew no better.

The world has come a long way in the last 60 years, and we benefit, if only only in greater comfort, leisure and a greater life expectancy.

But there is a price to pay, resources are finite, and side effects of some of our advances do damage our lives.

Enjoy what we have, but sensibly, to minimise the impact for our grandchildren.

End of old man's philosophical rant!

Howard

[Russell EberhardtParticipant @russelleberhardt48058]

Electric cars are not as clean as people are lead to believe. In the UK a large proportion of electricity generated comes from fossil fuel sources. Admittedly generating power in a power station is more efficient than in a car engine but you must not ignore distribution losses and battery charge/discharge efficiency. The net result is that the electric car is responsible for nearly as much CO2 emission as a petrol car.

Diesel vs petrol: Diesel cars are more efficient and produce less CO2. Older diesel cars produce a lot of particulates and NOx which give rise to poor air quality in cities however current models complying with euro 6.2 standards produce much less.

Russell

[Glyn DaviesParticipant @glyndavies49417]

I read that the grand master plan is to equip all houses with some kind of ground or air sourced heat pumps for heating/cooling. Then use smart meters to draw power from all the electric car batteries that will be plugged in for when the wind doesn't blow or the sun shine.

I think gas heating is banned for new build houses within the next couple of years.

[KWILParticipant @kwil]

Diesel cars remain noisy and smelly objects however you dress them up/

[Anonymous]

Posted by Russell Eberhardt on 11/07/2019 16:05:27:

Diesel vs petrol: Diesel cars are more efficient and produce less CO2. Older diesel cars produce a lot of particulates and NOx which give rise to poor air quality in cities however current models complying with euro 6.2 standards produce much less.

Oddly we had a meeting today at a gas sensor company for whom we're designing an updated PCB and signal processing for their NDIR CO2 sensor. They also sell optical particulate sensors, often used for air quality monitoring. At lunch one of the scientists was saying just that, modern diesel engines are less polluting than petrol for some gases and especially for particulates.

Whatever we do there'll be some "expert" or government "adviser" thinking up a new pollution source or new target to hit. Even if we all walked people will be worrying about particulates from shoe soles. The only permanent solution to pollution is to get rid of everybody. Then at least there'll be nobody to worry about cows farting.

Andrew

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