Easy flow

[ROBERT BLACKSHAWParticipant @robertblackshaw40066]

I need to solder a joint that will have heat, soft solder will melt, is easy flow the same as silver solder.

[ROBERT BLACKSHAWParticipant @robertblackshaw40066]

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

EasyFlo is a brand name for 42% cadmium bearing silver solder. You can't buy this anymore so will have to get a 55% cadmium free silver solder such as Cup's 455. and suitable flux

Edited By JasonB on 15/06/2016 19:53:50

[Brian HParticipant @brianh50089]

Easi-Flo is silver solder but you may have problems getting hold of some due to the Cadmium content.

Easi-Flo No 2 is the one with the lowest melting point at around 620 deg C but the modern replacement is Silverflo 55 at a melting point of 660 deg C.

[NJHParticipant @njh]

Robert

Easy flow is one "silver" (or hard rather than soft) solder.

Here is one explanation of the process.

I'm sure others will also give guidance.

….and in the time it took to post this they did!

Norman

 

Edited By NJH on 15/06/2016 20:00:39

[Keith HaleParticipant @keithhale68713]

For more info on easi-flo and silver solder alloys, how to use them etc go to **LINK**

Easi-flo is no longer available within the EU. Other alternatives are.

keith

[Tim StevensParticipant @timstevens64731]

There is a further confusion regarding the names of solders. Now that traditional lead-tin solder (or soft solder, properly) has been overtaken by lead-free alternatives which often include silver in small amounts, people have been calling the new silver bearing soft-solder alloys 'silver solder'.

This is confusing because in the past, silver-solder was used to describe brazing alloys with quite a lot of silver (usually 50% or more) which have a much higher strength, and higher melting points, than any version of soft solder. Such silver solders can also be called 'hard solder' as they are much less easy to cut with a penknife.

Even the term brazing is confusing, as it should mean using brass (as in brazen images) but the term is also used for joints made with melted bronze, as well as other non-zinc-containing alloys.

I'm not sure there is a universal clear set of terms used for the various ways of 'joining by melting something else into the joint' – I am just pointing out the confusion that can be caused, currently.

Regards, Tim

[MuzzerParticipant @muzzer]

Posted by Tim Stevens on 17/06/2016 18:46:01:

There is a further confusion regarding the names of solders. Now that traditional lead-tin solder (or soft solder, properly) has been overtaken by lead-free alternatives which often include silver in small amounts, people have been calling the new silver bearing soft-solder alloys 'silver solder'.

Even the term brazing is confusing, as it should mean using brass (as in brazen images) but the term is also used for joints made with melted bronze, as well as other non-zinc-containing alloys.

Lead free solder is referred to as "lead free solder". Never heard it called silver solder.

Brazing simply seems to refer to copper alloys, so for example I have copper-silicon rods that are used for "brazing" and they work very nicely.

Both soldering and brazing differ from welding as they don't involve melting the parent metal.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Lead free solder is referred to as "lead free solder". Never heard it called silver solder..

You did not read this thread and the link to "silver solder" in the first post did you

[MuzzerParticipant @muzzer]

I did but just dismissed it as typically misleading US advertising. They can get away with claiming almost anything over there and likely wouldn't be able to make those claims here. That's a big step away from lead free solder becoming known as silver solder in any general sense.

Quite unusually in this case the MSDS shows plainly that it is common or garden lead free solder but presumably anybody who buys it is too ignorant to know what an MSDS is. Often, these Mercan companies take a commonplace substance, cloud it in mystery and make ludicrous claims for it. The MSDS will then claim "trade secret" to avoid divulging what you are paying through the nose for.

Edited By Muzzer on 17/06/2016 20:59:28

[Peter KroghParticipant @peterkrogh76576]

I don't think I'm reading your post wrong, Muzzer. So I've got to say that you can't read.

The Stay-Bright made by Harris is a 95% tin and 5% silver, lead free solder. It's not a garden variety solder. The lead free crap sold at the plumbing store is tin/antimony and is crap to work with. Tin/Silver is properly known as a 'silver bearing solder', not 'lead free' or 'silver solder'.

The tin/silver was developed decades ago for soldering stainless steel food equipment and is a color match for sstl. It also has a tensile strength of about 20kpsi

I works well on most anything except frog hair, elephant snot and aluminum. Flows at 430*F.

It's a legit engineering material and should not be dismissed. There's no trade secrets and the composition is made by quite a few companies. Probably even a British one.

Rant over.

Pete

 

Edited By Peter Krogh on 17/06/2016 21:18:01

[Anonymous]

The trouble with a rant is that it can lead, with a bit of rearrangement, to tarn..ation.

In the world of commercial electronics, in Europe and the UK at least, lead free solders are known exactly as that, lead free, even though they usually contain a small percentage of silver. To meet the RoHS regulations the solders must be lead free, so calling it a silver bearing solder isn't useful.

Andrew

[Peter KroghParticipant @peterkrogh76576]

Nomenclature between industries is a mess. And when you have many industries/trades/professions represented as we do here……

Sorry to have been so rough Muzzer.

Pete

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

CuP Alloys sell it, as 'Silver Tin' solder and list it under 'soft solders':

http://www.cupalloys.co.uk/soft-solders/

Neil

[Anonymous]

Posted by Peter Krogh on 17/06/2016 23:22:02:

Nomenclature between industries is a mess. And when you have many industries/trades/professions represented as we do here……

At least the use of the term condenser has died out in the world of electronics. It saves you wondering why there is a large tank full of copper tubes sitting on the circuit board.

Andrew

[NJHParticipant @njh]

"At least the use of the term condenser has died out in the world of electronics. It saves you wondering why there is a large tank full of copper tubes sitting on the circuit board. "

Well it might have died out for youngsters like you Andrew but, for those of us reared on valves, condensers are still the thing! I can recall working in apparatus rooms full of racks and racks of valve amplifiers ( all with condensers!). During hot summer days it was almost unbearable to be in there for any length of time and folk had to keep nipping out for a breather!

Bah humbug you youngsters have it far too easy these days!

When the valves were replaced by solid state equipment it was said that the 20 + staff could be replaced by 1 man and a dog. ( The dog was to keep the man away from the equipment!)

Happy days!

Norman

[CirclipParticipant @circlip]

Standard American miss use from post number 8 (Will this web EVER give post numbers) regarding "Silver Solder". Never seen soft solders any other colo(u)r than "Silver"

All that glisters is not Gold

Regards Ian.

[MuzzerParticipant @muzzer]

Haha, no problem Pete!

There's an interesting and surprisingly comprehensive overview of solders on Wikipedia, both electrical and metal-joining.They distinguish between soft solders (mostly tin based, with melting points above 450C) and hard solders (silver, copper etc based, with melting points over 450C). Interestingly, there is a "silver-bearing solder" Sn96Ag4 that is 96% tin, 4% silver ie very similar to the stuff in the title. The main difference between the electronic and metal-joining solders seems to be the addition in the electronic versions of small amounts of other copper or other elements to assist in the reflow process, prevent tin whiskers, reduce copper dissolving etc.

I'll get off my hobby horse in a moment but here's an example of the preposterous advertising they get away with in the US (and Canada). A vacuum that is fitted with a 12A plug (running from a 15A MCB) may just about manage 1800W if it takes the full, allowable 15A short term load. As an engineer, it seems to me that this would amount to a shade under 2.5HP according to conventional practice. But these boys have decided there is a measure called "peak HP" that appears to be more than twice that number. 6HP would be 4.5kW or almost 40A draw. Even a slow MCB would prevent that condition persisting long enough for it to be of any use to the user. It's such a fantastic wheeze that other manufacturers have started to use it for food processors, mixers etc as well as vacuums. Only in America (and Canada)….

Murray

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by Andrew Johnston on 18/06/2016 11:57:53:

Posted by Peter Krogh on 17/06/2016 23:22:02:

Nomenclature between industries is a mess. And when you have many industries/trades/professions represented as we do here……

At least the use of the term condenser has died out in the world of electronics. It saves you wondering why there is a large tank full of copper tubes sitting on the circuit board.

Andrew

You mean one of these?

Neil

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by Muzzer on 18/06/2016 14:59:23:

But these boys have decided there is a measure called "peak HP" that appears to be more than twice that number. 6HP would be 4.5kW or almost 40A draw.

Perhaps it's made by Amstrad…

Neil

Edited By Neil Wyatt on 18/06/2016 15:23:40

[Peter KroghParticipant @peterkrogh76576]

Thank you for your understanding, Murry. As I get older (I'm only 68!) I have a tendency to react too quickly and write without proper cogitation.

When I was last involved in commercial electronics (board assy and mfg) the change from solders with lead to lead free was just beginning. And I haven't been near it since, so a lot has changed as Andrew pointed out.

You mention valves. What we called tubes…. I left active electronics back when the transistor was taking over. I can still build you stuff out of my head using tubes, but this modern stuff doesn't 'compute' in my brain.

Back then we didn't call our hobby 'electronics', we called it 'radio'.

I remember when the 'horsepower' and 'peak amps' crap started with power tools and appliances. Oh what a bunch of crap!! Still goes on.

I'd much rather have an old motor with a large diameter armature than a new one with a small armature with big wires spinning fast!

Take care,

Pete

[Anonymous]

Posted by Circlip on 18/06/2016 13:20:58:

All that glisters is not Gold

Iron pyrite?

Andrew

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Muzzer on 18/06/2016 14:59:23:

…

I'll get off my hobby horse in a moment but here's an example of the preposterous advertising they get away with in the US (and Canada). A vacuum that is fitted with a 12A plug (running from a 15A MCB) may just about manage 1800W if it takes the full, allowable 15A short term load. As an engineer, it seems to me that this would amount to a shade under 2.5HP according to conventional practice. But these boys have decided there is a measure called "peak HP" that appears to be more than twice that number. 6HP would be 4.5kW or almost 40A draw. Even a slow MCB would prevent that condition persisting long enough for it to be of any use to the user. It's such a fantastic wheeze that other manufacturers have started to use it for food processors, mixers etc as well as vacuums. Only in America (and Canada)….

Murray

The link reveals this peculiar statement: "Peak Horsepower represents a level at or below the maximum horsepower output of an electric motor tested in a laboratory using a dynamometer".

Presumably it means that they got 6HP out of the motor by overloading it with lots of volts and amps.

Without saying how long the motor lasted at an output of 6HP, it's pretty meaningless. If the motor ran for an hour at 6HP I'd be impressed. More likely something melted in short order.

Has anyone here boosted a standard car engine or model engine with nitrous oxide or similar? How much extra oomph did you get and how long did the engine last?

Cheers,

Dave

 

 

Edited By SillyOldDuffer on 18/06/2016 19:54:32

[davebParticipant @daveb17630]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 18/06/2016 15:19:46:

Posted by Andrew Johnston on 18/06/2016 11:57:53:

Posted by Peter Krogh on 17/06/2016 23:22:02:

Nomenclature between industries is a mess. And when you have many industries/trades/professions represented as we do here……

At least the use of the term condenser has died out in the world of electronics. It saves you wondering why there is a large tank full of copper tubes sitting on the circuit board.

Andrew

You mean one of these?

Neil

Any chokes in there?

[nigel jones 5Participant @nigeljones5]

Isnt that just a cooling device? It mustnt be switched on as I cant see any valves either!

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