Dore Westbury milling capacity

[Chris Smith 20Participant @chrissmith20]

Hi. I am interested in the Dore Westbury milling machines and I am struggling to find any details about milling capacity of the machine. I am aware that the machine was designed for light use but how light is light? A friend of mine has a MK1 and says that the best cut with a 6mm end mill is approx 5 thou when milling steel and a little better on Ali etc. Is this correct? Compared to the more modern Chinese mills available on the market for between 5 and 7 hundred pounds, what sort of capacity can they cope with?

All sensible advise gratefully appreciated please.

Regards Chris

[Chris Smith 20Participant @chrissmith20]

[John PParticipant @johnp77052]

Hi Chris,
I built my Dore Westbury mill from a kit of parts in the early
eighties ,the largest cutter that i used was a 3/4 inch end mill.
In ordinary mild steel it would cut at least 1/16 inch deep and
more on occasions .I still have it although it is now a cnc machine.
The head lives on with an Axminster table and is still a useful
machine and can be seen in the album Dore westbury cnc.
I have a medium size Warco mill which obviously will cut at
greater depths than on the Dore Westbury but this is just about
rigidity and power.

John

[Chris Smith 20Participant @chrissmith20]

Hi John. Thanks for this. I am quite taken with the machine as a whole and have wanted one for some years but hearing that the cut was very limited has put me off. I wonder if the machine I know of has a bit of a problem, something simple to sort out. I think the head needs new bearings which would not be a problem for me. The unit is an early MK1 with a four speed pulley and no speed reducer unit on the head which is fine. I'm puzzled why the machine in question will only make VERY light cuts. The motor seems ok and works well at all speeds on the pulleys. What do you reckon could be the problem please?

Chris

[Dave HalfordParticipant @davehalford22513]

I believe Dore Westbury are home built, so accurate? Maybe.

The modern chinese electrics can be affected by damp workshops.

Old british bench mills can be worn and a lot wont plunge due to a lack of quill, but will take a big cut if that's your thing.

The most info on the web seems to be about the Chinese.

Go after which ever bothers you the least.

I went Centec, I've not regretted it.

[Chris Smith 20Participant @chrissmith20]

Hi Dave. Interesting, thanks. I am wary of the Chinese kit and would need a good bit of persuasion to buy one. I was at the big Doncaster show a couple of weeks ago (very enjoyable) and had a look at what was on offer, all seemed rather flimsy and the castings were of poor finish and quality was a bit hurried if you know what I mean, hence the interest in the DW.

Chris

[RobboParticipant @robbo]

Chris,

The motors originally recommended for the Dore-Westbury was 1/3HP for the Mk1 and 1/2HP for the Mk2 (to be able to use the higher speeds of the Mk2).

This might give you a clue as to the intended use, though choice of motor was down to the individual builder.

[Chris Smith 20Participant @chrissmith20]

Hi Robbo. I think that the unit in question probably has a 1/4 HP motor fitted.

Chris

[Nick_GParticipant @nick_g]

.

I have never owned a DW so I maybe jumping ( unfairly ) to conclusions here.

They for whatever reason they seem to command 'top dollar' on THAT auction site. ………… Perhaps it's the name.?

I would think you would get far more bang for your buck with something like a Centec ( so long as you can find a decent one) With a DW you may end up with a good bit of kit depending on who made it. Or so to speak a bag of dirty washing.

The price recently has been climbing on such milling machines as the SX3 but they still represent good value from a credible retailer. Again I might be talking through my ar$e but I 'think' that an SX3 would show either of the above a clean pair of heels.

Nick

[Chris Smith 20Participant @chrissmith20]

Hi Nick. Thanks, yet more food for thought. The S X3 looks a good bit of kit but is outside of my budget whereas the DW I have my eye on (not on a website) is. A lottery win would help……..

Chris

[KettrinboyParticipant @kettrinboy]

Hi Chris

Ive owned a DW MK1 for 35 yrs now , i think it was originally built in 1977-78, a 5 thou cut with a 6mm cutter is nowhere near what a DW in decent condition should manage , on mine a 6mm FC3 type cutter could do 2mm a cut in mild steel and probably 4-5mm in say 6082 aluminium with coolant which makes a big difference btw , as nearly all are home built the standards of machining vary a lot and i found that after i bought mine it needed the angular contact bearing housings in the quill sleeving and reboring as they had been made oversize , one of them was 10 thou over so nowhere near good enough and i also ended up having to make a complete new spindle at work as the morse taper in the spindle nose was 8 thou out of true and very ridged , plus the top keyways were way out of line, still having done all that and a few other details its been a damn good machine since , i wouldnt worry about not having the backgear , i only ever use that for slitting saw work but you could probably get away with using bigger pulleys to slow the spindle down enough for a smaller size saw , i find the 1/4 HP motor good for up to 12mm/1/2 inch cutters and bigger ones than that used with care, it was not meant to be a tool room standard machine nor a production machine but it was designed as a light hobby machine that was easy….ish to complete on a Myford/Boxford size lathe and so as long as you dont try to take big cuts and try to force it but just use feel to see what its capable of it does a more than good enough job for most modelwork , i,m still not tempted to go for a replacement yet as mine still does the job for me.

regards Geoff

Edited By Kettrinboy on 03/06/2016 22:12:24

[Chris Smith 20Participant @chrissmith20]

Hi Geoff. Well, that's a big vote indeed for the DW. I am feeling more confident now. The unit in question was made by a toolmaker and the compound table is a work of art. I think a change of head bearings will sort most of the issues and perhaps a decent Collect chuck.

I have seen a DW with a really good pulley layout which gave it a really slow speed at one end of the spectrum and about 2500 RPM at the higher end. Might go for that and swap out the belts for poly v type which are said to be better.

Thank you !

Chris

[KettrinboyParticipant @kettrinboy]

Hi Chris

as far as cutter holding is concerned i use MT2 collets rather than a chuck , it keeps cutters closer to the spindle nose and they run truer and also improves rigidity when using bigger cutters , that said though i must admit an ER16 or 25 chuck is handy for holding odd size drills and cutters.

regards Geoff

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

5 thou with a 6mm endmill is just a recipe for blunting endmills.

As people have said a DW should capable of more. It's broadly comparable to a rigid column X2 type machine in size and rigidity so performance should be similar, at least 1/16" in steel with a 1/2" endmill.

As many DW's were home built from a kit of part-machined bits, performance may vary, but I think the dovetails and gibs were machined so you should be able to set them for good performance.

Obviously it also depends on the size of motor fitted.

Neil

[Bob Brown 1Participant @bobbrown1]

Dove tails? no dove tails similar to a Myford. **LINK**

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by Bob Brown 1 on 04/06/2016 11:54:24:

Dove tails? no dove tails similar to a Myford. **LINK**

Interesting – never noticed that before!

For comparison purposes, I did a bit of milling today on my old-style (but stiffened up) X2 mill, no problems either climb or conventional cuts:

Toughened steel (jig blocks for a vice) 2.5mm depth of cut, 1.5mm width of cut, feed about 180mm/min

6028 Aluminium alloy ~ 4mm DOC (it was angled) 7mm width of cut, feed as fast as I could turn the handle.

I used two 10mm carbide cutters run at about 1200 rpm, one meant for steel and the other for aluminium.

I can't see any reason why you couldn't do similar cuts on a well set up Dore Westbury.

[Chris Smith 20Participant @chrissmith20]

Hi Everyone. Thanks for the responses, brilliant. I note that the slides on the unit I am considering has dovetails, it was one of the earliest but a MK1 DW not a Westbury (so I am aware). I think I will go for the DW and replace the head bearings.

Neil. Whilst I think about it, how aboutv this as an idea for an article in ME Workshop please? I find all the different types of Tungsten carbide disposable tips a bit daunting as a new comer to using them (have used HSS all my life) and would be grateful for someone in the magazine to do a simple write up about them, how to choose them (different shapes, styles, usage on different metals etc) and what to use as a newcomer as a way of getting used to using them . Thanks

Chris

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Yes it has been suggested before, as a convert to carbide I have asked someone for an article.

The cutters I was using are solid carbide not inserts (and despite comments elsewhere are sharp as a razor).

Neil

[Chris Smith 20Participant @chrissmith20]

Hi Neil, great, look forward to reading and learning from it.

Regards

Chris

[George ArcherParticipant @georgearcher16419]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned this already, the Dore Westbury was designed by Arnold Throp who developed the design from Mr Westbury's original to make it easier to build in a home lathe only workshop and arranged for any machining outside the builders resources to be done by his own engineering company Dore Engineering hence the double barreled name. What is relevant to the present thread is that he is also the author of Vol 2 of the workshop Practice Series of books "Vertical Milling in the Home Workshop" 1st published 1977, and still in print i.e.. pre Chinese imports, therefore the book is basically the Dore Westbury manual and the speed/depth of cut/material data found in table III on page67 can be considered advice from the horses mouth so to speak. I can confirm these cuts/speeds work very well on my Dore Westbury as does the rest of the advise in the little book

Edited By George Archer on 12/07/2016 02:04:25

[RobboParticipant @robbo]

George,

I did think about putting Arnold Throp's tables from the book on here, then realised it was still in print as part of the Workshop Practice series, so thought I' better not.

My own copy of the book is a 1979 edition before it became part of the series.

[brickyParticipant @bricky]

I owned a mk1 DW and it gave me great service,like all machines you use it to it's capabilities,it will tell you if you are asking to much.Lifting the head and loosing position was my reason for changing to an sx3 ,I did fit a laser to assist in resetting the head which helped.The head height is great.For a light machine it has a lot going for it.

Frank

[Chris Smith 20Participant @chrissmith20]

Hi

Many thanks for the latest threads on this. I have purchased the machine in question and made some small modifications and adjustments to it and it now cuts well with a good sharp cutter. Gib strips were slack, and the head had a tendency to swivel when making a heavier cut so I made a mod to the grub screws holding it in place.

The unit is mounted on a purpose made plinth with enough room to mount a small bottle jack beneath the column making it much easier and safer to raise and lower the column.

I liked the mention about Arnold's book so I will be getting a copy. I have found Harold Halls books absolutely brilliant and would highly recommend them. Good exercises to make useful tools and teaching working practices at the same time.

Bricky, would you mind telling us how you attached the laser to the machine you had and how it worked in practice? I'm sure others would benefit from it, even with more modern machines. Thanks in anticipation.

Chris

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

Based on the Mk2 Dore Westbury I feel the machine is similar in many ways to an X3 but less prone to vibration.

Depth of cut questions are bit bizarre really and can't be divorced from speed, feed and cutter size. At 650 RPM, a speed mine is mostly set at power levels aren't far from what the X3 has at the same speed. Given that they may well have an old large frame 1/2 hp motor on them they might actually be higher.

All a higher speed would do really is allow a faster feed. At 650 rpm I would have no hesitation using a 3/8 end mill at it's usual max depth which would generally be regarded as 3/8" and feed at a rate that suits the machine and leaves a reasonable finish. The biggest cut i have needed to take on mine is 1/16" for a depth of around 3/4" on the side of a 10mm cutter on cast iron. It didn't cause the machine any problems at all. It did it easily.

I have a 100mm 6 tip indexable face cutter to adapt too it. I expect to be able to get reasonable cut depths with it. As that will be run at 450 rpm more power will be available. It also uses raked tips which should help. They will drive a fly cutter of this size.

Part of my thoughts when I bought the machine were based on milling in a small lathe . 1/4hp motor, slotting 3/8 steel plate with a 3/8 cutter. It did it easily. Plenty of milling has been done with lower power motors using a vertical slide on lathes.

I must admit I am using sharp cutters. The person I bought it off wasn't even when demo'ing it. As is often the case on small machine tools the slides were way too loose.

John

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[Glyn DaviesParticipant @glyndavies49417]

I replaced the angular contact spindle bearings on my Mk1 machine with taper rollers. It's a straight swap apart from the need to thin one of the lock nuts and make a new swarf shield from an old slitting saw:

Edited By Otley on 14/07/2016 11:38:53

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