Design conundrum – fitting a new workshop into a space

[John CoatesParticipant @johncoates48577]

Plans for a new workshop are afoot but I have a request for help.

The part of the garden where I would like to build the workshop is bounded on three sides – raised patio (left), neighbour's garage (rear) and boundary fence (right). The boundary fence is the low point so that is my datum to comply with planning. The garage has its eaves at 2.45m so I don't want to go above that (planning restriction is 2.5m anyway). Maximum size would be 16 x 10 ft to stay within planning rules and not require an application.

The "plot" is 16 ft wide across the garage between the patio and the boundary fence. I could come into the garden as far as I like but more than 10 ft will be imposing. I plan to screen the workshop with decorative fencing to appease SWMBO

How can I maximise the size of workshop I could build?

If I need to fix external cladding from the outside onto the frame then I lose space by requiring space between the workshop and the garage and the boundary fence, probably 2 ft per side.

Or is there a way to fabricate the walls and put them in place then add the frame or bracing afterwards? I would have clear access from the front and left (patio)

Any thoughts?

John

[John CoatesParticipant @johncoates48577]

Maximising workshop space within land constraints

[wheeltapperParticipant @wheeltapper]

Hi

I don't know much about designing sheds but after erecting two in my garden up against the fence all I can say is……. never again.

you WILL need to get around the shed, for regular treating, repairs and such.

I really wish I'd left access round mine.

my opinion.

Roy

[NJHParticipant @njh]

John

A bit more information on your proposed method of construction please. If, as I read it at the moment, this is to be of timber construction then I would recommend you build the walls as seperate panels on frames which you fix together with coach bolts once they are clad and have a protective finish applied. But a bit more info. with a sketch of the site would be useful.

regards

Norman

[blowlampParticipant @blowlamp]

Buy a plastic shed that doesn't need any maintenance.

**LINK**

Martin.

[Neil GreenawayParticipant @neilgreenaway71611]

Hi There,

Would composite panels be an option for you? They would be very low maintenance, come complete with inbuilt insulation. You would need access to screw the fixings onto cladding rails, however this could perhaps be completed as one large panel prior to erection of the inaccessible wall?

The composite panels are available in a wide range of colours and finishes and are relatively easy to work with.

Many thanks,

Neil.

[V8EngParticipant @v8eng]

As the user of a wooden shed workshop for many years, I can only say that if I was starting again then I would beg, borrow etc to have a brick or blockwork building instead.

I think that: security, moisture proofing, heating, electrics and keeping it all in good order would be so much easier.

That's my thoughts on it, but like everything it is all down to available funding at the end of the day.

 

Edited By V8Eng on 21/05/2012 18:58:04

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

Combining some of the suggestions above you might consider SIP. Structural Insulated Panels. google it . This does away with framing by using thick insulation say 6 in kingspan, fully sheethed in very thin plywood. The ply is able to take the weight of the roof because it is in compression and stopped from buckling by being bonded all over to the foam insulation. Obviously you base the design on 8×4 units.

My own plans for this method involve tapering one side of each panel by 1 inch (inside edge) to allow bolts to draw the edges together then fill the gap with foam. One 4ft section remains removable for machine entry. It would not be too difficult to scrape out the foam and release if necessary.

I too have been wondered about the inaccessible side. My observations of sheds and barns leads me to the conclusion that good old corrugated iron will last upwards of 40 years if not burried in leaves at the bottom. Sheet asbestos if you could still use it would run 70 + years. If you can find it flat galvanised steel would do well and might be available in 8×4.

The roof can be a similar panel – flat and only nominally waterproof. Then a proper roof of corrugated iron (or fancier plastic coated version of same) goes over the top with any slope required and an air gap to improve summer heat dissipation. Try to overlap by 12 in all round and think about gutter cleaning.

[The Merry MillerParticipant @themerrymiller]

John,

Are you implying that because of planning regs. you can't have a pitched roof?

The extra storage storage space you would finish up with would be invaluable.

Another point that you could take as a warning, when I moved into my present house twenty years ago the brick built garage which was to be my workshop, had a very shallow pitched roof covered with corrugated asbestos.

The day after I moved in I entered the garage and found to my horror moisture dripping down everywhere from the underside of the asbestos all over my woodworking machines, it was just like blotting paper and was absolutely saturated.

Within two weeks it had been replaced with 1" ply and three layers of roofing felt, had no problems since.

Len. P.

[Jonathan MillerParticipant @jonathanmiller74768]

This place makes composite panels

**LINK**

I used the 100mm(insulation) steel coated both sides for the roof on my workshop.

I have friends who have used it on the vertical by just bolting it to a steel frame. But I think it would be better on a course or two of engineering bricks. I would have thought you could design this material in to the closed in side, of the shop and then remove it from the inside if you need to.

Price is about £32 a square metre but there are a lot of offcuts that you can spec and get a lot cheaper. It comes in 1metre widths and interlocks together making a very strong structure.

Of course with insulation comes reduced heating bills and in my case no condensation.

Regards

Jonno

[John CoatesParticipant @johncoates48577]

Posted by blowlamp on 21/05/2012 13:32:16:

Buy a plastic shed that doesn't need any maintenance.

**LINK**

Thanks Martin but being tight up to an obstruction at either end means the doors have to be in the middle

[John CoatesParticipant @johncoates48577]

Posted by NJH on 21/05/2012 13:23:39:

A bit more information on your proposed method of construction please.

Plan is timber frame with log lap cladding over marine ply, insulation and boarded out on interior side. Roof would be marine ply with same insulation and boarding. Moisture barriers of course. Concrete base and wall plates will sit on two courses of engineering bricks.

[John CoatesParticipant @johncoates48577]

Posted by V8Eng on 21/05/2012 18:52:04:

but like everything it is all down to available funding at the end of the day.

And planning. If it is timber and under 15m2 area and 2.5m height then it is a shed and I don't need to make a planning application. Anything brick or concrete and I risk having to go through planning.

[John CoatesParticipant @johncoates48577]

Posted by The Merry Miller on 21/05/2012 20:03:22:

Are you implying that because of planning regs. you can't have a pitched roof?

I can have any roof but the highest point cannot be more than 2.5m from ground level (GL). The lowest GL is the right hand side at the boundary fence. The garden slopes down to this (from the patio) so I am basically excavating out into the slope. The level area has to provide for the base and for the doors to open

[Jonathan MillerParticipant @jonathanmiller74768]

I think you can build with bricks:

Building Regulations

If you want to put up small detached buildings such as a garden shed or summerhouse in your garden, building regulations will not normally apply if the floor area of the building is less than 15 square metres and contains NO sleeping accommodation.

If the floor area of the building is between 15 square metres and 30 square metres, you will not normally be required to apply for building regulations approval providing that the building contains NO sleeping accommodation and is either at least one metre from any boundary or it is constructed of substantially non-combustible materials.

Data taken from Permitted development Planning portal:

http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/permission/commonprojects/outbuildings/

Edited By Jonathan Miller on 21/05/2012 21:27:36

[John CoatesParticipant @johncoates48577]

Posted by Jonathan Miller on 21/05/2012 21:13:36:

I think you can build with bricks:

Jonathan – think I need to read the local planning regs again then but it could be butted right up to a boundary and I think bricks will be too expensive for me. Hence the timber construction.

[Jonathan MillerParticipant @jonathanmiller74768]

Hello

Just an idea but you might be able to use double glazed sliding patio windows at the back and possibly the front. I got mine from a friend who was replacing his, but double glazing companies are skipping these all the time on refits. Plenty of light and free.

Regards

Jonathan

Edited By Jonathan Miller on 22/05/2012 07:32:52

[Lawrie Alush-JaggsParticipant @lawriealush-jaggs50843]

Hi John

I was faced with a similar dilema several years ago when building a shed at my old place. Here in Melbourne we have to have fire resistant walls on boundaries which pretty much limits the choices to either brick or corrugated steel.

I would have liked to do brick but didn't have the readies for it so I used timber framing and corrugated steel. I had a paling fence and a breeze block wall to build against so what I did was set the stumps, build the floor right up to the boundary and then put the frame together lying flat on the floor. I then fixed the steel to the fram leaving about 50mm overhang at the bottom so that water would run past the bottom plate-floor joint. Then I got hold of hold a dozen mates and a slab of coldies and just lifted the walls into position. I nailed some braces in place to the floor until I sorted out the corners. That was it.

Because of the shape of it I ended up having to build a curved roof, something I hadn't done to that point. The local council building inspector came and cast a beady over it and gave it his benediction saying that the walls met with the building code requirements.

Lawrie

[Tony DimnickParticipant @tonydimnick84271]

Posted by Jonathan Miller on 22/05/2012 07:15:07:

Hello

Just an idea but you might be able to use double glazed sliding patio windows at the back and possibly the front. I got mine from a friend who was replacing his, but double glazing companies are skipping these all the time on refits. Plenty of light and free.

Regards

Jonathan

Edited By Jonathan Miller on 22/05/2012 07:32:52

this one is a very good idea. the two glass patio needs low maintenance. Im planning to place shed as well on my backyard for some of my tools. Would yiu suggest a wood or plastic shed?

[Tony DimnickParticipant @tonydimnick84271]

Sorry guys for reviving this thread. I'm looking for shed ideas and came across this one. I overlooked the date.

But I'll be happy if anyone can help.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Think about how you will lay out the inside when deciding on a solution.

My workshop is an old concrete garage, roughly 16 x 8 inside. With roughly two foot benches on three sides and the door in the middle on a short end that pretty much maximises the space available..

I keep the space either side of the door for shelve, loose storage, but could have taken the benches right along (except I have a wall mounted heater one side of the door).

Some people cope with a narrower space down the middle (in practice about 3 8&quot, but with large machines 16 x10 would be good proportions.

The double door will use up a lot of your length compared to even a wide standard door. Plus patio doors are harder to secure than a good solid wooden one. It also shows off what is inside rather well…

Neil

[SamsarandaParticipant @samsaranda]

Tony, when I built my workshop it is in the corner of the garden with two fences adjacent, one along the back wall which is 17 feet long and the other along the side about 7 feet long, the walls against the fences are built from concrete block, the two walls not adjacent to fences are concrete block for the 7 feet one and the front which has the door and window and is 17 feet long, is constructed of wooden ship lap on the outside with 100 mm of celotex and the inner layer is OSB, (oriented strand board). The front wall which is wood framed with the ship lap cladding stands on one row of concrete blocks, this is to keep it above any water and damp which prevents or at least dramatically slows any rotting of the base timbers. The interior floor is concrete which has been painted with polyurethane floor paint. The roof is a flat construction of OSB laid on suitable joists and finished with two layers of " torch on" felt. Inside the roof is insulated with 50 mm of celotex fitted between the joists. During the winter I run a built in dehumidifier which runs at night on off peak electric, there is also a small oil filled radiator running on low setting throughout the winter months and ensures that the temperature remains at a constant 10 degrees C. The insulation in the roof and front wall means that temperatures with the heating remain fairly constant and therefore the variations which can cause condensation are avoided and the equipment remains rust free ( well has been to date). The window fitted in the front wall is a large double glazed unit which was diverted on it's way to the dump so cost nothing, well worth searching out double glazed Windows to fit as they will enhance any insulation measures taken. You can't insulate enough, it will all contribute to eradicating any rust problems from condensation. Three of my walls are concrete block which some people advise will promote condensation, I have no problems with them but then the area the building is located in is relatively sheltered from extreme weather and in another location may behave completely differently. Build as big and as substantially as you can afford you will not regret it.

Dave

[Tony DimnickParticipant @tonydimnick84271]

Posted by Samsaranda on 25/09/2017 11:44:42:

Tony, when I built my workshop it is in the corner of the garden with two fences adjacent, one along the back wall which is 17 feet long and the other along the side about 7 feet long, the walls against the fences are built from concrete block, the two walls not adjacent to fences are concrete block for the 7 feet one and the front which has the door and window and is 17 feet long, is constructed of wooden ship lap on the outside with 100 mm of celotex and the inner layer is OSB, (oriented strand board). The front wall which is wood framed with the ship lap cladding stands on one row of concrete blocks, this is to keep it above any water and damp which prevents or at least dramatically slows any rotting of the base timbers. The interior floor is concrete which has been painted with polyurethane floor paint. The roof is a flat construction of OSB laid on suitable joists and finished with two layers of " torch on" felt. Inside the roof is insulated with 50 mm of celotex fitted between the joists. During the winter I run a built in dehumidifier which runs at night on off peak electric, there is also a small oil filled radiator running on low setting throughout the winter months and ensures that the temperature remains at a constant 10 degrees C. The insulation in the roof and front wall means that temperatures with the heating remain fairly constant and therefore the variations which can cause condensation are avoided and the equipment remains rust free ( well has been to date). The window fitted in the front wall is a large double glazed unit which was diverted on it's way to the dump so cost nothing, well worth searching out double glazed Windows to fit as they will enhance any insulation measures taken. You can't insulate enough, it will all contribute to eradicating any rust problems from condensation. Three of my walls are concrete block which some people advise will promote condensation, I have no problems with them but then the area the building is located in is relatively sheltered from extreme weather and in another location may behave completely differently. Build as big and as substantially as you can afford you will not regret it.

Dave

This is really nice that you have a talent to do all this. You even have an insulator. My uncle just advised me to go buy a shed because he said it will be more convenient for me. He used to have a shed like this: http://whatshed.co.uk/plastic-sheds/ 8×6. He said bought it 4 yrs ago and still up even with this weather. There are few leaks when I visited, but it was ok after an easy fix. So the only thing right now is the approval of my wife, who disagree most of the time.

 

Edited By Tony Dimnick on 26/09/2017 09:09:38

[Brian OldfordParticipant @brianoldford70365]

the approval of my wife, who disagree most of the time.

Don't thay all?

[Tony DimnickParticipant @tonydimnick84271]

She got access to all of my passwords. Shhhhhh….

[Author]

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