Chinese lathes

[Martin WParticipant @martinw]

Getting back to the subject of this thread I think that the photos in Lathejack’s album show what can be achieved with these lathes. If the gear box supplied looked like his finished item then there would be praise galore for the importers and producers alike.

 

Bar for some surface corrosion (admittedly not nice to find), a clean, a lick of fresh paint and some controlled drilling the basic machine is there. Even Myford users improve their machines changing tool posts, thrust bearings for top/cross slides too mention but couple.

 

As it has already been said if the Chinese factories switch on to quality control in a big way then, at the current or comparable exchange and pay rates, most of the western companies will be very hard pressed to survive. It has happened in other fields, so if the market is out there then it will happen here as well.

 

To my mind its very much horses for courses; if I want a chisel to fit a door hinge then I will buy a budget item, it may need re-sharpening but it will certainly perform well enough for the job in hand and a fair bit more. If I was going to take up fine carpentry then its a different case altogether.

 

Cheers

 

 

Martin

[James fortinParticipant @jamesfortin46829]

if anyone wants to know what lathes and machines sieg makes look at

 

http://siegind.en.alibaba.com/productlist.html

 

it opened my eye to how many lathes they make and other company rebrand. 

[Ian AbbottParticipant @ianabbott31222]

Hey Ketan,

 

My wife is a Chinese – English translator, cheap rates for engineers.

 

Ian 

[Ketan SwaliParticipant @ketanswali79440]

Hi Ian,

 

Thanks for the offer. If only writing a manual was that simple. In our case, we were involved in the development of KX3, so we had to come up with a manual for the world english speaking market, which also used MACH3 software. So, we needed a person who had engineering knowledge and speak “British” english (not American), and who could write a manual. So, the work was initially given to a U.K. person – not cheap, and the initial result was not suitable for “simpleton” non-engineers like me. That is why we brought the work in-house. JS and Alan wrote the manual and dumped it on me and JSs wife to test it out. Several hundred revisions later, a manual was born. We still have “issues”.

 

During last months production issues meeting at the factory, in addition to myself, there were seven people ranging from commercial translator – lady, through to factory general manager, assistant GM, technical design guy, QC lady, production guy and production head of department. I went through Geoff – our engineers “video of  issues” with them. First I had to deal with Geoffs “english sarcasm humour” and put that into simple english. Then I had to make sure that she got it across correctly to the rest of them. We had interesting times. Later, they brought forward JS’s proposals which he had made two years ago for a new machine. This took nearly half a day to discuss, combined with heated opinions both ways – in some ways similar to what has been discussed on this thread. I thought we made good progress in that meeting, only to find on my return that JS has now craped on the idea. Colourful language between the two of us was duly exchanged. I really did enjoy half a days wastage!

 

So, if your wife is a technical Chinese engineer, and she can translate that very clearly both ways, then she would be a very useful contibutor.

 

Ketan at ARC.

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

Posted by James fortin on 25/11/2010 17:20:55:

if anyone wants to know what lathes and machines sieg makes look at

 

http://siegind.en.alibaba.com/productlist.html

 

it opened my eye to how many lathes they make and other company rebrand. 

 Quite,

 

Did you read the about page ?

 

Total Annual Sales Volume:	Above US$100 Million
Export Percentage:	91% – 100%

 

So if ‘ALL’ these people as dissatisfied with their machines why isn’t the internet and forums clogged up with these posts.

 

FACT it’s usually bar room lawyers who don’t even own one of the products having a jab.

This post is a classic example, not even started by the guy who owns the machine in the first post, in fact I don’t think he’s even posted on it.

Then they go on to try to start other threads to link to this one.

 

I for one an grateful for these cheap imports as it means that what was rare and expensive is now within reach .

 

When I first started out in this game, repairing vintage motor cycles, I don’t built models, I bought a brand spanking new Myford ML7 as it was affordable [ just ] but then a milling machine was not available in a small workshop size at an affordable price so I built one of the Dore Westbury kits from Ivan Law.

These filed a niche market at the time, I went on to build the machine vise, boring head, rotary table and my own design of dividing head because at that time before CNC in industrial shops all this was in daily use and you had to wait for someone to die before they came up and never cheap.

 

All these machines did sterling work given the size limitations they had.

Later on as prices rose so did second-hand equipment, I can remember 15 years ago a Super 7 in decent condition would fetch nearly what a new one cost, £2,000 seemed to be an average price.

 

Nowadays a decent Super 7 can be had for £1,000 to £1,200.

If these cheap import machines didn’t exist to fill the market then we would have more people chasing less machines which, like musical chairs would leave a lot of unhappy punters.

 

You can buy a rotary table for less money than a kit to build one so how can you complain about quality when the kit is ‘not fit for purpose’ in that it doesn’t work out the box ?

 

John S.

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

 

Posted by Ketan Swali on 25/11/2010 19:50:10:Later, they brought forward JS’s proposals which he had made two years ago for a new machine. This took nearly half a day to discuss, combined with heated opinions both ways – in some ways similar to what has been discussed on this thread. I thought we made good progress in that meeting, only to find on my return that JS has now craped on the idea. Colourful language between the two of us was duly exchanged. I really did enjoy half a days wastage!

 

 

Ketan at ARC.

 

 

Yes but look on the good side Ketan, I, as in one person crapped on the idea to save you having twenty [ expletive deleted ] crapping on the idea when introduced.

 

Think what total time this has saved you.

 

John S.

 

 

PS post  edited with expletive deleted inserted to save DC1 having to edit it.

[Ketan SwaliParticipant @ketanswali79440]

Yes true, Sir John

 

Plan B has just been approved and I have emailed it across to you just now.

 

Ketan at ARC.

[Sub MandrelParticipant @submandrel]

May I just point out that cars typically cost >£10,000 and come with manuals so superficial as to not be worth looking at. A Haynes Manual is an essential purchase with any new car, even if you don’t want to do advnaced maintenance.

 

I paid £70 for a full set of RX7 workshop manuals only to find there was barely a job I could do on the car. Then I wrote it off

 

Neil

[David Clark 13Participant @davidclark13]

Hi There

I see lathejack is posting more photos yet he has not replied to our requests about where he got his machine.

Is he even bothering to read the posts?

regards David

 

[David Clark 13Participant @davidclark13]

Hi There

I see lathejack is posting more photos yet he has not replied to our requests about where he got his machine.

Is he even bothering to read the posts?

regards David

 

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi, regarding Neil’s referance to Haynes Manual, I don’t think they are half as good as they used to be. Although some technical info has been improved.

 

Regards Nick.

[Jens Eirik Skogstad 1Participant @jenseirikskogstad1]

Posted by David Clark 1 on 25/11/2010 21:22:10:

Hi There

I see lathejack is posting more photos yet he has not replied to our requests about where he got his machine.

Is he even bothering to read the posts?

regards David

 

 I think that Lathejack view photos than he describes or tells about it in the forum since pictures say more than 1000 words. Do not know if he has read here in the forum .. Because here in the forum does not appear anyone is online and who is present and read the forum as we all can see who are in online in the ME homepage.

[TerrydParticipant @terryd72465]

Thank you Ketan,

 

That’s exactly the response I expect from a supplier. The consumer doesn’t matter as long as his or her money is good.

 

T

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi Jens, you can read the forums without being logged on, that way you won’t see who is reading.

 

Regards Nick.

[LathejackParticipant @lathejack]

Hello

 

 The photos in the album were to illustrate what i found in my machine and, because of the way they are produced and because it was a replacement for the first machine that had the same faults but worse, what some other owners may find in theirs. It shows the remedies i used to correct them, particularly the regular pattern of rings produced on softer metals when using finer feeds, a problem experienced by other owners of similar machines, of various makes and models, i’ve spoken to.

 

 It was about the factories and their methods that cause these problems. Where they are well made it says so. It was not about and does not include any bitching, bashing or slagging off of the supplier, or any other supplier of Chinese machinery. They are not referred to at all in the descriptive text, maybe i should have hidden the brand too.

 

 I did not start a post or thread grumbling about the quallity of Chinese machinery and the suppiers of my own or others. In fact i have still reccomended one of Warcos lathes on another post, so there is no hate campain going on. 

 

 I was reluctant to get drawn into what might have got turned into or appeared to be a list of moaning and accusations as its in the past whether i’m dissapionted with the experience or not. But it seems i owe a bit of an explanation.

 

 Yes i should have rejected the second machine after checking for and finding rust, although a lot less than the first, while still on the delivery lorry. Earlier concernes during ownership voiced to a member of staff about the possibility of damaged bearings were dismissed as nonsense.

 

  A phone call to the supplier when the full extent of the corrosion damage was discovered, once i had finaly found the time to investigate further, as a partner with MS consumes a lot of it, with the machine by this time well out of warranty, got the rather reluctant reply that if i wanted to post them they would take a look. But on mentioning the extent of the corrosion, and on both machines, the first of which by the way had a manufacture date of two and a half years earlier, and asking what might be going wrong in the assembly factory, i was rather abruptly told that there is ‘no problem’ and ‘we never have any trouble’ followed by ‘the factories are the equal of European ones’.

 

 I think at that point, probably foolishly, i gave up with them, not sure how to prove the rust was there from the start. As for the casting sand and swarf, well i don’t recall raising any concerns about that. I always check for it and have always found it in every enclosed type gearbox on machines from Taiwan and China that i have owned. I have two horizontal bandsaws [not Warco machines] and the gearboxes on both contained some. But it was a bit excessive on the lathe.

 

 The Sale Of Goods Act posted by some is an eye opener, but how many of us in our daily lives are aware of its details, and would or should have to use it like a stick to beat a retailer with.

 

 The ‘Mines alright and you should have bought something else’ brigade should remember it is not the purchaser who is responsible or to blame for choosing to buy machinery that turns out to be faulty. And as for ‘Getting what we pay for’ well i think the claims made in the printed advert and verbal assurances is what we pay for, Whatever the asking price.

  

 

Edited By Lathejack on 26/11/2010 03:38:06

[Ketan SwaliParticipant @ketanswali79440]

Terry,

 

I dont know which response you are referring to, but if have offended you, I appologise. 

 

I am just presenting a balanced response to a one sided view of stating “the law”. My simple statement was and still is that you should know the facts, and approach the supplier for a response, before carring on about the SOG Act.

 

I stand by my comments.

 

Regarding your comment: “The consumer doesn’t matter as long as his or her money is good.”. You are saying this – not I.

 

We – ARC provide a good and reasonable service to our customers. Do we not deserve some credit or respect in return?

 

Non-factual comments damage our livelyhoods too.

 

Ketan at ARC.

 

 

[Ketan SwaliParticipant @ketanswali79440]

Lathejack,

 

All I can say to you is that your lack of earlier response has led to many people pissing in the wind here. DC – please donot edit this comment. With the greatest of respect, you should really have commented much earlier.

 

Sensational developments like this help My Hobby Store to sell magazines and promote advertising on this forum, but DC should understand that facts are presented before the situation gets out of hand.

 

ARC has a right to respond when inaccurate BS – do not edit – is stated about who manufactured this machine. DC – I request you to please be more careful. This carelessness to shooting the wrong party – specifically you shoorting JS when you should have dealt with the person making the inaccurate comment – does effect our livelyhood.

 

As for Lathejacks situation with Warco, now that you have decided to come out with it – too little too late, you may have/may have had a case, and perhaps you should have persued it at that time. The impression given by your original posting has led to a situation which has clearly got out of hand.

 

Ketan at ARC.

[Ketan SwaliParticipant @ketanswali79440]

Hi Terry,

 

Joking aside, was that C1 which burnt in the fire from ARC ?

 

Ketan at ARC.

[Tony JeffreeParticipant @tonyjeffree56510]

Hi Ketan –

 

Wot – Arc’s C1’s not fireproof?? Tsk tsk!

[TerrydParticipant @terryd72465]

Hi Ketan,

 

yes unfortunately,

 

In fact I buy from you regularly as I live not too far away and it all went up,  Just awaiting the loss adjuster before restocking.  Shame about the aborted move to Shepshed but Syston is closer for me fortunately.

 

In response to your other post, I have no problem with your products or service, in fact I think it excellent and recommend you whenever possible

 

Regards

Terry

Edited By Terryd on 26/11/2010 11:08:41

[Scaublin120 Deckel fp1Participant @scaublin120deckelfp1]

Hi All

I have read all of the posts and can say the idea of buying a chineese lathe now is of no value, buy a used professional worksnop machine or a smaller bech mouted machine if that is what you are after, pultra,schaublin etc are good machines and come in many sizes.

I bought a schaublin and had to strip it and rebuild it make new lead screws adjust gibs replace oils etc but overall is that not part of owning a machine?

 

My last post was the ultimate lathe for model engineers and it got 70 ish posts before it died out ,that was toung in cheek poking a finger at Myfords,i have owned a mashtroy 220 and a viceroy before i bought my shaublin (there is a progression there) and i bought my FP1 through need and size restrictions

[Ketan SwaliParticipant @ketanswali79440]

Hi Terry,

 

Great to read that you purchased the C1 from us. Yes it is indeed unfortunate …just joking.

 

Sorry to read it went up in the fire.

 

If you decide to come and visit, do identify yourself so that I can put a face to the name. Happy to have a chat over tea.

 

Yes it is a shame about the aborted move to Shepshed. If only…

 

Thank you for your support.

 

Ketan at ARC

 

 

[Ketan SwaliParticipant @ketanswali79440]

Hi Tony,

 

Who let you back in?

 

Ketanat ARC.

[Tony JeffreeParticipant @tonyjeffree56510]

Posted by Ketan Swali on 26/11/2010 11:25:04:

Hi Tony,

 

Who let you back in?

 

Ketanat ARC.

 Hi Ketan –

 

Someone must have left the door open …

 

Regards,

Tony

 

Edited By Tony Jeffree on 26/11/2010 13:16:17

[Tony JeffreeParticipant @tonyjeffree56510]

Posted by Scaublin120 Deckel fp1 on 26/11/2010 11:13:26:

Hi All

I have read all of the posts and can say the idea of buying a chineese lathe now is of no value, buy a used professional worksnop machine or a smaller bech mouted machine if that is what you are after, pultra,schaublin etc are good machines and come in many sizes.

I bought a schaublin and had to strip it and rebuild it make new lead screws adjust gibs replace oils etc but overall is that not part of owning a machine?

 

From what I have seen of the used market for big name lathes like Schaublin, you end up paying through the nose for a clapped-out old machine that needs extensive refurbishment even to bring it up to the level of the equivalent-sized Chinese import lathe straight out of the box, and you *still* end up paying significantly more for it than with the import ed machine.

 

I’m sorry – I simply don’t get the logic here.

 

Regards,

Tony

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