Chinese Lathe Accessories.

[TerrydParticipant @terryd72465]

Posted by John Stevenson on 14/12/2012 09:01:35:
………………….

Most are shots of jobs being done or setups.

**LINK**

John S.

Edited By John Stevenson on 14/12/2012 09:02:35

Hi John,

Are those NEMA 23 steppers on the Rotabs in your pictures? I have one of those tables and am considering converting it to stepper drive.

Best regards

Terry

[TerrydParticipant @terryd72465]

Posted by KWIL on 14/12/2012 09:16:44:

Give them a chance, the owners of RDG did not have to buy old Myford, they have invested good money with the aim of restoring the supply of a British Icon. The sons continue to run RDG and the father runs Myford Ltd. From my conversations with new Myford they have every intention of making us proud of their venture, using UK sources of manufacture.

You will have every chance and no doubt the usual suspects will rise to the cause, if these aims are not met, in the meantime stick to your model engineering instead of mouthing off about things some of you know little about.

I for one appreciate John S' down to earth approach, long may it conntinue.

Terry

[Russell EberhardtParticipant @russelleberhardt48058]

Posted by Lambton on 14/12/2012 09:13:17:

Myford which after all is only a development of a 1947 machine aimed mainly at the amateur and educational market.

Which, in turn was based largely on the 1930's Atlas lathe.

Russell.

[LambtonParticipant @lambton]

"You are entitled to your opinion but be please get the facts right."

David,

i did not say that RDG sold new Myford lathes. I was referring to New Myford to distinguish RDG,s company from Nottingham Myford.

As KWIL suggests I will give RDG a chance as I hope we all will and then we can assess their performance in the fullness of time.

[David Clark 13Participant @davidclark13]

Hi There

You said it is overpriced.

As it is not for sale new, that is untrue.

regards Davd

[LambtonParticipant @lambton]

David please read my post properly and you will see the comment was a quote from an earlier one by alan smith 6. To signify this I put quotation marks at both ends.

The simple point that I am making concerns the future supply of quality parts for a very popular British product now sadly no longer made.

[David Clark 13Participant @davidclark13]

Sorry Lambton

I did not realise it was a quote.

regards David

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

What quantities of any given Myford spare are sold each year? It can't be many as you don't wear out a chuck in a year. So not many companies in China are going to be interested in an order for 50 off specials when they can set up once for an order for 10 thousand generic chucks or even a small order for 100 thousand car parts. No chance to make few test pieces to check out the line so if they get it wrong what do you think they are they going to do with the 50 items rejected by RDG?

[alan smith 6Participant @alansmith6]

Gentlemen, Gentlemen.

Nobody insults my lathe!!!!

A word to John Stevenson, your post about the plastic pig was out of context and may I say disruptive to the thread, which I suppose, was it`s purpose.

Dave Clark , the overpriced and overated jibe was up to me and if you scan the for sale ads you will see that this is still true. Have you ever tried a Boxford lathe? Based on a prewar Southbend lathe, designwise it is head and shoulders above the Myford and was a true precision lathe when new.

In my opinion Lampton is the only person that shows any sense and I agree with his erudite comments wholeheartedly.

Despite what anybody says, companies that supply parts that are not fit for pupose, whatever the price, are just not serious and are best avoided.

Alan

[Ketan SwaliParticipant @ketanswali79440]

Posted by Lambton on 14/12/2012 09:13:17:To their great credit Arc Eurotrade recognise this by openly offering "as received " machines or at a higher price ones that they have cleaned, inspected and adjusted in the UK to their satisfaction. All other suppliers appear to send everything out "as received" and deal with any quality issues only when the purchaser complains.

The main reason that British manufactured model engineering products have vanished is our collective desire to only pay low prices with the demise of Myford being a good example.

There is an old saying "the quality is remembered long after the price is forgotten"

Hi Lambton,

Arc no longer deserves this credit. Arc has stopped the preparation service for most SIEG machines, in the past two months. Reasons for this are as follows:

During the past 11 months ARC has been observing that customers are demanding lower prices. I for one would insist that these machines are fit for purpose, for the price the hobby engineer wishes to pay. For this point, I gladly welcome legal challenge from anyone who wishes to put money where their mouth is.

I understand and respect the need for lower price, based on budget. However, during this year I have observed language from certain competitors who suggest the following to make a sale: "the reason why ARC offers a preparation service is because their machines are not of good quality. Our machine does not need to be prepared because our machine is of a better grade". This statement is marketing B**S**T. All Chinese machines as received are of similar build and quality when compared like to like. However, when you are new to the hobby, who or what do you believe?

I mentioned this in some other thread a few months ago, after returning from the Harrogate show. At the said show, ARC managed to sell new machines to customers who had bought from us before and were upgrading. We managed to sell new machines to customers who had come by recommendation. However, we did not sell a single machine to any new customers who did not know us. I got to know more clearly about these comments a few months later when some of these people came to us for spares.

So, these are few of the reasons why ARC has stopped the preparation service.

Ketan at ARC.

 

Edited By Ketan Swali on 14/12/2012 16:18:47

[KWILParticipant @kwil]

Alan, This is a free market, if as you say, some prices are overpriced and some machines over rated,then there will not be sales for such machines if you are correct. However there is still an active second hand market for certain machines for whatever reason, people are prepared to vote with their cash.

Can you still buy spares for a Boxford or indeed for some of these now discontinued chinese imports?

[magpieParticipant @magpie]

I am often amazed at some of the stick chinese stuff gets on here. It seems to come mostly from folk who regard themselfs as good engineers, if that is the case who better to fix this so called "poor Quailty" . I happen to think it is mostly good value for money. An old saying springs to mind at the moment A POOR WORKMAN ALLWAYS BLAMES HIS TOOLS.

Cheers Derek

[alan smith 6Participant @alansmith6]

KWIL, Ketan & Lambton,

I must admit that I like to poke fun at the Myford lathe and my preference is for the Boxford which as I said is designwise head and shoulders above the Myford. I still have the Boxford that I bought for £300 and earlier this year bought a Boxford VSL500 which I haven`t yet commissioned into service.

I`ve had the advantage, relative to our hobby, of completing a five year indentured apprenticeship with a now defunct world famous engineering company specialising in high precision machine tools. This does not make me a whiz kid on the machines but I know a lot about them. After my apprenticeship and National Service, I went into design engineering where I thrived until retirement.

During a period of unemployment I worked on the shop floor as a fitter and later imported machine tools into Norway where I live. I specialised in Boxfords and Harrison mills also Colchesters which I`m very fond of. This entailed stripping down the machines for cleaning and sometimes for repairs.

I learned to turn on a Boxford at school in the fifties and have loved them ever since. I would like a Colchester Student 1800 and am looking out for one at the right price but I will always have a boxford as well for the small jobs.

There seem to be a lot of folk coming into the hobby that don`t really have a clue as to what to buy and what a machine is capable of. Dave Clark has had a series running in the MEW for beginners which is very good and I`ve been able to recap and learn from it.

I would rather buy a second hand British lathe than a cheap Chinese import. The finish and function problems inherent with the chinese lathes just turn my stomach.

Whether one buys a Myford or a Boxford is usually down to individual preference, ie your dad had one, and the newcomers buy Chinese lathes because of the price. I`m betting that a large proportion of these Chinese purchasers will buy something better once they become proficient in turning.

KWIL, I would not buy any new spare for the Myford or the Boxford, there are dealers that specialise in breaking these machines and one can be fairly confident that the parts will fit. Ebay is a treasure trove!

Alan

Edited By alan smith 6 on 14/12/2012 18:31:57

Edited By David Clark 1 on 16/12/2012 09:41:15

[alan smith 6Participant @alansmith6]

Derek Derek Derek,

The old ones are the best!

That`s right, tease us engineer oldies but please remember to read the thread if you are going to comment!

We`re talking about companies selling chinese stuff not fit for purpose, please explain where your comment fits into this category, how many years that you have been into modelling and what chinese lathe do you own!

Alan

Edited By David Clark 1 on 16/12/2012 09:41:41

[magpieParticipant @magpie]

Alan (just the once) I have read the thread, every word . Not fit for purpose would sujest to me being sold a volt meter to find a gas leak. Every item of the type you are talking about, that i have bought in recent years has been adequate for model engineering,if not strait from the box, then with a very small amount of finishing. I have been into modelling since the age of eight when i had my first meccano set and i am now 72. I own a Chester DB10VS lathe, a Chester Champion 20 V mill, an Axminster X1 mill with the Arc Euro long bed conversion,a Chester 6×4 bandsaw, a Chester 24"multiformer, do i need to go on? If you would like to see the kind of work produced on these machines then please take a look at the "fibre optic clock" thread. Another old saying has just sprung to mind !!! IF THE CAP FITS WEAR IT.

Cheers Derek.

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

LOL Derek, nice one.

Ironic that the Boxford so lauded about by Alan is no longer available to the public despite Boxford still being in business.

The same applies to Denford.

The reason being that they will only deal with companies and education. When I spoke to the guy at Denfords over a CNC matter and asked why, the blunt reply was they didn't want to be involved with tyre kickers or another way of putting it is "Persons not fit for purpose "

[alan smith 6Participant @alansmith6]

Derek once,

I am older than you and must have alzheimers light as I wasn`t really able to follow your arguments.

I am able to gather that you have received items that needed rework in order to for them to function. Therefore, those items were not fit for purpose until you made them so.

BMC used to supply cars that weren`t properly finished but the purchasers of these cars did not get stuck in there and finish them but complained very loudly.

You own a lot of far eastern machinery and probably have never owned British machines that are so much better and pleasing to operate. I will end with an appropriate Yorkshire saying, " There`s nowt so daaft as fowk"

Alan

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

Posted by alan smith 6 on 14/12/2012 23:55:21:

I am able to gather that you have received items that needed rework in order to for them to function. Therefore, those items were not fit for purpose until you made them so.

Alan

There is a big difference in modifying something so it suits the way you work and not being fit for purpose.

Take a lathe for instance if it starts, turns parallel plus a few more bits it's fit for purpose. After all that's what a lathe does.

The fact it may have a few burrs, rough edges etc doesn't mean it's not fit for purpose.

End of the day if we all had to wait to own a British machine then many would not be able to take this hobby up. And who's to say that every Myford / Boxford out there is a decent lathe ? I once bought a Super 7 just to get the gearbox off it. It what was absolutly clapped out, never seen one as bad.

 

However it was a Myford, good British make so it must have been alright, mustn't it ?

 

I'm a big believer in just as you say something is not "Fit for purpose" it also follows that not every owner is "fit for purpose"

 

I have know many who I wouldn't trust with a spoon.

 

I look back in past issues on ME and see some of the things made on Drummond , Winfield, Pooles and Atlas lathes and piss myself laughing when "Fit for purpose" is mentioned.

 

But then again these were real men……………………………………………………………

 

John S.

 

 

Edited By John Stevenson on 15/12/2012 00:12:57

[alan smith 6Participant @alansmith6]

John,

In an earlier post you asked me why I am so fixated on photos.

Photos give an indication that the person who is making the post is actually engaged in model engineering or machinery.

I noticed that the postings on a thread that I was contributing to, that had no photo album, were usually the butterflies that settled, made a contribution, usually at a tangent to the thread and fluttered off again. Plastic pig one of your more intelligent posts

There is no irony that Boxford lathes are no longer available There are plenty available on the second hand market and I would never buy a new machine.

Alan

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

Alan,

I have already given a link to where 1,131, oopps no sorry put 3 more on tonight, so 1,134 photos of my work reside.

I choose to host my own pictures on my own server and not host them on a site like this one I have no control over.

As regards being engaged in model engineering or machinery I can assure you I am, full time 10 to 12 hours per day.

At least people buying new machines are supporting the manufacturers / importers etc and contributing. Second hand sales contribute nothing, Look where it got Myford, at least in my time I did buy two brand new Myfords from the factory or rather one of their agents.

I have also bought a brand new TOS lathe a few years ago which is my daily mainstay, plus at least 6 or 7 Chinese lathes and mills.

Funnily enough EVERYTHING has been "Fit for purpose" whether that is just a fluke or whether it's because I know what it's purpose is I don't know ? I'll leave you to work that one out.

[FMESParticipant @fmes]

When I started my apprenticeship way back in the early seventies we were taught on Colchester Students / Bantams and Bridgeport R8 mills as the main equipment, when these were taken out of service as BER in the early eighties, we commandeered some of them for our Model club and used them to good effect until we were made redundant in 2001.

Not knowing where my next job was coming from and needing to keep my hobby interests going I bought a GH1330 Lathe and a Super Major milling machine from Warco.

To be honest, both machines are better than I expected, and are virtually in daily use, mostly for garden machinery repairs and odd jobs admittedly. but have just started the R B Gas engine as a winter project.

The first job for the R B was to machine up the cylinder casting which required a Bore of 2.25" over a 6.5" length and was carried out in the four jaw chuck.

After honing the bore the piston rings were tried and found to have a gap of .002" along the entire length of the bore, now, that I am more than happy with on a 'cheap' machine that has been in use for over ten years.

My only complaints are the indexing on the lathe, awful little aluminium tags, but as I only use them as comparators and prefer to get precise measurements from digital measuring equipment, I don't find this to be too much of a problem.

As John S. says, fitness for purpose.

[Ketan SwaliParticipant @ketanswali79440]

Posted by alan smith 6 on 08/12/2012 19:08:58:

John,

Sorry about the confusion! The Chinese made part was Myford compatible although the advert did not actually say this, I learned the Chinese connection from the supplier during my telephone conversation with him.

Alan

Alan,

This statement is in the interest of clarity and nothing else. There are Chinese made accessories and there are Indian made accessories. If these parts which you had were specifically made as Myford compatibales, there is a high probability that they were made in India, not China, regardless of what the supplier told you. I come across this problem regularly. China has its own set of problems. India has its own set of problems.

It really pisses me off when such sellers do this with the full knowlege of origin. This process is specifically designed to make you think that all parts come from the same place. So when you call some other supplier and ask about the origin, the new supplier will say it is from China, and you will automatically presume that it is of the same quality as you purchased from the original supplier.

This is not to say that the new suppliers product of different origin will be better or worse, but the old supplier has made sure that you think that it will be the same!!.

So, by now, all the people who have read the title and content of your thread are of the opinion that these Myford compatable parts are made in China – which they are probably not, and the damage to what ever extent, is done. The seller who has probably read this thread is also laughing at this, knowing full well what he has done.

To date, there are extreamly few Myford compatible parts made in China. The parts you mentioned are probably not!.

Ketan at ARC.

Edited By Ketan Swali on 15/12/2012 11:13:28

[magpieParticipant @magpie]

It is never my intention to be rude to anyone, but i do get anoyed when, as John says folk expect a Rolls Royce for the price of a Lada. The first lathe i bought was an ex school BOXFORD which with my then very limited knowledge i managed to make a real mess of everything i tried to make.I then bought a Hobbymat and things started to improve. After a bit of a windfall i sold the two lathes and bought the Chester UK DB10VS. Wow! i found that i could produce accurate work after all, it was not just my lack of experience but clapped out machines that were the problem. It has been a steep learning curve since then. With regard to Chinese items i will say this. After the war japanese stuff was total rubbish, but within a few short years they started to produce items that are now regarded as the best in the world. Watch that space as they say.

Cheers Derek.

[alan smith 6Participant @alansmith6]

Ketan,

Thank you for your light in the dark.

When I started this thread I had hopes that it would produce information that would be of interest to all modellers or engineers buying Chinese and ( Indian ketan ) parts. Lets face the facts, we all like a bargain whether rich or poor but this attitude has a downside that damages our country.

Over the years I have watched our manufacturing capacity dwindle to almost zero, If you drive through a former industrial area it`s appalling to see the devastation that has ocurred. Other countries like Germany where the inhabitants buy German made items are less badly affected.

If we go back to the beginning of the thread, my complaint was that I had received parts from RDG tools that were grossly undersized and I sent them back. the response that I got from Chris was that the parts were approved by his engineer as fit for use. This is all backed up with Email correspondence.

I wasn`t happy with this answer and this arrogant attempt to fob me off is the basis for starting this thread.

I know that modellers are a mixed bunch, some with little experience and others with a lifetime of engineering experience.

Let me put this in front of you:

If any of you had received a component from a supplier that had a diameter on which a gear was to fit with a nominal diameter of 5/8" ( .625" ) and the measured diameter was .601, 24 thou undersized. Would you consider this as fit for purpose?

It takes all sorts, looking at some of the postings one can see the admirable British trait of sticking up for the underdog but in the case of these cowboy suppliers they are the overdogs and pull the wool over your eyes, I can hear them laughing.

Unfortunately the thread has become contaminated by spurious and disruptive postings that do not follow the spirit of the thread, such as veiled threats of violence, inability to see the problem clearly, Drivel about a plastic pig, point scoring, to name some.

If you don`t have something positive to add to to the thread then please go back to what you normally do whatever that is.

Alan

[LambtonParticipant @lambton]

This thread started off concerning accessories rather than whole machines.

I have never owned a Chinese lathe so I am not in a position to make any useful comment about them.

Returning to accessories, a few years ago at the Midlands Model Engineering Exhibition I decided to buy a travelling steady for my Myford super 7. One trader was selling genuine Myford ones at £45 which is a good discount and represented a very good deal.

Did I buy one? No like an idiot I bought a “pattern” one for £21, knowing it would originate from the Far East most likely India, from one of the principle suppliers in the south midlands who regularly advertise in all the model engineering magazines.

My reasoning was that there could be little risk buying such a simple item.

Wrong! When I got it home and took it out of its packet I noticed the single fixing hole was very large considering the fixing bolt is only ¼” diameter. Closer examination showed the hole to be 10.2 mm diameter and that it was drilled on the skew by about 5 º but even worse, when offered up to the lathe the hole was so out of place that the top finger was about 2.5 mm back from the horizontal centre line. Then I looked at the side finger and found that to be 2 mm below centre height. Again a totally useless item.

I could have returned the item for exchange (would a replacement be any better?) or I should have got my money back. Instead I made the large inaccurate hole solid by plugging and machining back then re-drilled one of the correct size in the right place and made a suitable spacer to go below the steady. It is now usable.

So, stupidly, I let the suppler off the hook. I should have made them do something about it but to be honest I was so ashamed and disappointed with my own stupidity and meanness that I felt obliged to put matters right myself.

Can someone please tell my why the factories that make these parts produce items that cannot possibly fulfil their basic function when it is just as easy to make them correctly.

Is it the fault of the suppliers who obviously do not carry out sufficient quality control checks?

Not entirely, it is also my fault and the fault of other model engineers for always wanting a bargain regardless of origin. The suppliers are only fulfilling our demand. If they were to offer higher priced quality items no one would buy them – look what happened to the excellent Hobbymat lathe that is still made in Germany but no longer sold in this country because it is too expensive.

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