Cheaper Oxy acetylene source?

[Andrew TinsleyParticipant @andrewtinsley63637]

My 5 year contract with BOC will soon expire. Last time I renewed they wanted £800! Some time ago there was a thread about alternatives. It soon got hijacked with mig welding gases.

So is there anyone doing oxy acetylene cylinders, without BOC's rip off prices? I live between Leicester and Peterborough, so a fairly local depot would be nice !

Regards,

Andrew.

[Andrew TinsleyParticipant @andrewtinsley63637]

[MWParticipant @mw27036]

I'm not sure how big the welding is you like to do Andrew, but I find that although I want the benefits of gas welding, I don't want the fuss of having to store big acetylene and oxygen cylinders, the former being one of the hottest burning fuel gasses in the world!

So I bought the small welding kit sold by CuP for a few hundred notes, but it's perfect for me because I already have propane and I use it for small jobs, MAPP gas being a much safer gas to have around, and not so much of it in smaller disposable canisters that you can buy again from them, I'm still on my first after 6 months or so.

**LINK** (Oxyturbo set halfway down the page). 

Again, it may not be relevant to your cause but it's just what I use, no connection to them whatsoever, other than being a customer at least.

Nice to hear from you again!

Michael W

Edited By Michael-w on 01/06/2017 13:10:11

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Michael, any chance of a photo of the welds, I had always thought these sets were not upto welding well not unless you include lead burning in that. Cup don't seem to say it can be used for welding?

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

Don't know anything about MAPP gas, but I have used LPG and oxygen both for brazing and cutting, but although LPG and oxy has more heat, it does not has sufficient temperature to weld steel.

Ian S C

[MWParticipant @mw27036]

Posted by JasonB on 01/06/2017 13:38:36:

Michael, any chance of a photo of the welds, I had always thought these sets were not upto welding well not unless you include lead burning in that. Cup don't seem to say it can be used for welding?

Sorry i'm using weld out of context, I've actually hard soldered, I can show pics of that but not true welding I suppose.

I needed to fix a lampshade where the ring had come off it, so I cut out a mild steel ring with square two lugs, which I rolled each of into a tube shape with some pliers, little gap left at the top for solder and around the sides, fits beautifully now.

My propane burner flame would've been too hot (over a large area, because the nozzles are chunky) and burnt the material, which I covered to protect it. The little flame was perfect for it and very hot.

I have used it to cut through (gas axe) 3mm mild steel, you need goggles for that though and it works. So I presume it could weld?

Could even put up a video if I knew how and show you it cutting through a piece of scrap! 

Michael W

Edited By Michael-w on 01/06/2017 14:22:02

[Russell EberhardtParticipant @russelleberhardt48058]

Liquide air sell bottles outright, no rental charges, at least they do here in France. Leroymerlin in Calais will sell you a pair of 500l bottles with torch, regulators and trolley for €499. It's a long time since I bought refils but I think they were about €50 each.

Worth enquiring of Liquid Air in the UK. Failing that, make a trip across the channel before Brexit!

Russell

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

Not a lot of use perhaps as situated in North west, but this company does bottles with no rental

**LINK**

might be worth a phone call they might know someone in your area

[Antony PowellParticipant @antonypowell28169]

There are several companies around that do Oxy / and a fuel gas similar to acetylene with a good temp, you pay a one off fee for the bottle about £70 I think, then you pay for the gas initially and then when you need it refilled.

I've been using it for a couple of years and can't tell the difference except in my pocket where around £30 a month doesn't come out on rental. saved a fortune as I don't use that much gas….

http://www.sgsgases.co.uk/oxy-acetylene

will post prices i my supplier calls me back

Tony

[Andrew TinsleyParticipant @andrewtinsley63637]

Hmm, seems to be a NO as I suspected. I have had oxy acetylene for almost 50 years now and you just cannot beat it. None of the other oxy fuel gas systems comes anywhere near, for the sort of work I do.

It almost seems worth going to France on a day trip, anything is better than £800 rental and now probably in excess of £1000 at next renewal. The BOC B%%%%%%s even charge you a hefty "Handling Fee" even when you pick it up from the depot!

Seems they just want to discourage people like me!

Andrew.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Have you tried Hobbyweld they do it, can search site for a local agent

[clogsParticipant @clogs]

Hi Andrew, look up "Hobby Gas" ,

they have stockist all over the UK….Usually tool Hire Center's……the last bottles I got we're £50 deposit (refundable anywhere with the reciept)…….after that u just pay for the gas……..and you can get them refilled at any agent anywhere in the UK……

They do all the gas's u need CO2, oxy, accet, Argon……they are smallish say 8-10" dia about 30odd inches tall…..

they advertise in all the old car/bike magazines…….

I'm very happy with thier service's……… clogs……..

[Maurice TaylorParticipant @mauricetaylor82093]

Hi,try http://www.gas-direct.co.uk This company is based between Newark and Grantham just off A1. I rent an argoshield bottle from them at a cost £6 a month

[KWILParticipant @kwil]

air liquide albee for non rental.

[Gray62Participant @gray62]

Posted by duncan webster on 01/06/2017 16:23:23:

Not a lot of use perhaps as situated in North west, but this company does bottles with no rental

**LINK**

might be worth a phone call they might know someone in your area

Beware of this company, although they advertise 'no rental' when you read the small print, the 'rental' charge is based on a sliding scale dependant on the length of time you have had the bottle in your possession. in the end, if you are a low volume user you can end up paying rather more than you would wish. I would recommend AdamsGas over these people, based on first hand experience.

Edited By Graeme W on 01/06/2017 21:23:20

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Posted by Michael-w on 01/06/2017 14:16:58:

Posted by JasonB on 01/06/2017 13:38:36:

Michael, any chance of a photo of the welds, I had always thought these sets were not upto welding well not unless you include lead burning in that. Cup don't seem to say it can be used for welding?

Sorry i'm using weld out of context, I've actually hard soldered, I can show pics of that but not true welding I suppose.

snip

I have used it to cut through (gas axe) 3mm mild steel, you need goggles for that though and it works. So I presume it could weld?

Could even put up a video if I knew how and show you it cutting through a piece of scrap!

Michael W

Edited By Michael-w on 01/06/2017 14:22:02

Hi Michael-w, gas welding and gas cutting are quite different from each other. In gas welding the temperature has to be high enough to melt the area you are welding. In gas cutting the metal does not reach (or at least it should not) even close to the temperature of melting the metal, the process works on oxidation, i.e. the metal is heated to a red heat, whereby it is readily oxidized by the oxygen stream and the pressure of the oxygen stream blows the oxidized metal away. Try it on a bit of cast iron and you will find it does not work at all very easy, that is because cast iron does not oxidize as readily as steel.

Regards Nick.

Edited By Nicholas Farr on 01/06/2017 23:04:53

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

+1 for gas direct although I don’t rent acetylene
1/2 size oxygen is ?4.25 rental pm
?7.00 to refill but ?10 delivery charge. I don’t mind that as I can’t get to Newark for a tenner.
Full size MiG andTiG bottle’s which incidentally are larger than BOC or AirProducts are ?5.00 rental
They used to buy bulk gas from Air Lifquiede until Energas who is the UK agent, put the spoke in. They now buy direct from Italy, who also supplies Air Liquide so shows what a cartel the whole game is

[JohnFParticipant @johnf59703]

Hi Try these people if there is a stockist close to you, they are part of Air Liquide I have used them for some time and find it fine. Same as Andrew my contract with BOC came to an end and did not want to pay the high charges for only relatively occasional use — cylinders lasted me around 2 years. I also bye Argon etc from the same outfit.

**LINK**

[Antony PowellParticipant @antonypowell28169]

Hi Andrew

Used to carry out gas welding, cutting, heating or brazing, acetylene primary flames reach 3100°C whereas Profuel is a little lower at 2950°C this compared to propane at 2600°C makes a big difference. The Profuel secondary flame burns twice as hot as acetylene and is a much safer gas to use.

However as this is a different gas we suggest end users adjust their settings and strongly recommend our range of Pro Fuel specific nozzles, which give the very best results.

Does 150 c make that much difference, I braze, solder, weld and cut steel, weld aluminium, solder silver and stainless etc and haven't noticed any significant difference.

Tony

[Russell EberhardtParticipant @russelleberhardt48058]

Does anyone know what exactly Profuel gas is?

Russell

[John HinkleyParticipant @johnhinkley26699]

Just a quick heads-up for anyone tempted to cross the channel for a cheap welding set. You aren't allowed to carry gas bottles on the channel tunnel though I assume caravan sized ones are exempted. Can't say what the ferries allow as I never used them, but I suspect their restrictions are along similar lines.

John

[FatgadgiParticipant @fatgadgi]

It is possible to weld with MAPP gas and oxygen if you are very careful.

Possible, but certainly not easy and really only for small parts. The welds can easily become a bit porous / brittle if overheated. If you had a corner seam to weld, say in 16g steel, it would weld a treat, running straight down with minimum filler rod. But less easy welds become progressively more difficult.

Many years ago I did use it for much of the welding to restore a car, and it did a pretty decent job actually, with good solid welds, but I heard that the formula for MAPP gas changed for the worst (welding wise) a few years back, so I doubt I would rely on it for such a job now.

I mostly use it now for heating, which it's great for, and the odd bit of brazing – I use the stick or TIG welders more often for welding.

Cheers – Will

[Nick HughesParticipant @nickhughes97026]

Posted by Russell Eberhardt on 02/06/2017 15:11:45:

Does anyone know what exactly Profuel gas is?

Russell

Hi Russell,

It's Propylene.

Nick.

[Andrew TinsleyParticipant @andrewtinsley63637]

Hello Tony,

I don't think you have that correct? "Profuel secondary flame burns twice as hot as acetylene". I believe it is actually about 200 degrees centigrade cooler.

Anyone that has used Profuel and acetylene, can they say what their experience was of the two? One person says they don't notice the difference. On the one occasion that I used it, I was underwhelmed. Maybe I had not got the correct nozzle size, I used the one that I would normally weld with acetylene, maybe there is some difference?

Andrew.

PS, there is a hobbyweld agent very close to me, I will go and chat with them.

[Russell EberhardtParticipant @russelleberhardt48058]

Posted by Nick Hughes on 02/06/2017 20:30:22:

Hi Russell,

It's Propylene.

Nick.

Thanks. So, it's the same as the current formulation of MAPP gas.

Russell

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