Carbide or HSS 8mm lathe cutting tools ?

[Brian JohnParticipant @brianjohn93961]

Is there much difference between HSS and carbide 8mm cutting tools for the lathe ? I know from experience that there is a HUGE difference between HSS dies and carbon steel dies. The latter are completely useless and I will only buy HSS taps and dies now.

There is a Sieg C0 lathe for sale which I may buy and there is the option of purchasing carbide cutting tools. HSS tools are not offered so I would have to source these from elsewhere.

[Brian JohnParticipant @brianjohn93961]

Which ones to buy for a first lathe ?

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Personally on such a small lathe I would go with HSS, 6mm square would be more than ample.

The supplied tips in the tools would not be ideal for the lathe, if you were to go with carbide then the ground tips would be better and are usuallu coded **GT.

[Brian JohnParticipant @brianjohn93961]

Yes, I thought 8mm was a bit big but that is what is being offered :

**LINK**

[VicParticipant @vic]

Jason's right, HSS is the way to go. I wouldn't worry unduly about the size, 1/4" or 5/16" should both be ok provided it fits in the holder.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Forget what I said about tips as I can see now thay are brazed carbide. Looks like the set of red ones come with it anyway so no need to buy the extra set of blue ones at the bottom of the page. Though if you can find it cheaper without the brazed tools it would be better to buy separate HSS. The parting tool holder and blade they are offering as an extra is worth getting, I us eone for most of my parting on work below 1/2" dia.

J

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

II third that! HSS is really the best solution for a C0. You can put a sharp edge on HSS tools and it will last and make the best of the limited power and rigidity of a small machine.

Neil

P.S. if you ever get hold of good quality carbon steel taps, you may change your view of them. They might not last as long as HSS in a production situation, but they can be just as hard and sharp as HSS.

[Brian JohnParticipant @brianjohn93961]

I already have the parting tool, a spare blade and the drill chuck for this lathe. The parting tool shown in the set looks quite fragile considering the job it has to do !

[john jennings 1Participant @johnjennings1]

Even in experienced hands carbide tools may be a poor choice even if the lathe is rigid enough to cope.

HSS especially square bits will have the advantage that they are easily resharpened (you will have mini "accidents&quot and you will learn about cutting edges and relief angles.

You must have a grinder and a grinding rest that is some what better than usually supplied – I am not sure why a grinder is not almost top of accessories essential for a lathe owner!

John

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

It's interesting that the relative merits of HSS and Carbide are now discussed in the same way that Carbon Steel and the [then new-fangled] High Speed Steel were, in days gone by.

The fact remains that a good High Carbon Steel [Crucible Steel] will take a sharper cutting edge than either HSS or Carbide.

Food for thought ?

MichaelG.

[Brian JohnParticipant @brianjohn93961]

Which size cutting tools should I buy ? The websites say that the Sieg C0 can take 4, 6 or 8mm cutting tools. I have never seen 4mm so that leaves 6 or 8mm. Most places sell the 8mm cutting tools for the Sieg C0 but are there any advantages in buying the 6mm tools ?

Silly question : what is the auto feed attachment they are offering as an optional accessory ?

Edited By Brian John on 25/12/2014 13:25:31

[NJHParticipant @njh]

Hi Brian

The auto feed attachment provides automatic feed to the carriage to move it longitudinally along the bed. A very useful addition as you will find that it produces a much better finish on the work than hand feeding. This function is provided on larger lathes by the leadscrew ( where it is also used for screw cutting ) On some lathes it can also be used to provide a powered cross feed to the tool – again for better finish. As an aside I needed to face off a faceplate a while ago. On slowest speed, with the finest powered cross feed, it took 20 min! Glad I didn't have to do that hand feeding!

(P.S; There are NO silly questions – although there may, at times, be silly answers !)

Regards

Norman

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Brian,

As Norman says !

Be aware though, that the C0 attachment is an unusual design, and that it may not come with instructions.

It's worth looking at the picture on Arc's site, to see what's involved.

MichaelG.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

The feed for the CO is much the same as that found on the Emco Unimat3, very easy to fit and use and a tried and tested design.

The unit is screwed onto the end of the machine where it can remain. to opperate it you simply push in teh knob to engage and pull it out again to disengage. Depending on which way you put the twist into the belt it will drive left to right or right to left.

As for 4mm tool bits I think you have used Tracy Tools in the past they will have them but maybe in the inperial 5/32" size and ARC do 4mm ones, both of these will be blank tool steel which you can grind to your chosen shape though ARC also do a set of 4mm preshaped ones, you should be able to get teh AC stuff from Ausee.com

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by JasonB on 25/12/2014 16:25:43:

The feed for the CO is much the same as that found on the Emco Unimat3, very easy to fit and use and a tried and tested design.

.

I stand corrected.

MichaelG.

[Brian JohnParticipant @brianjohn93961]

It seems like an essential bit of kit. I am surprised that it is not installed as a permanent factory fitting rather than an optional extra.

[Bodgit Fixit and RunParticipant @bodgitfixitandrun]

HSS every time. I've maged to fracture every one of my carbide tools.

[Brian JohnParticipant @brianjohn93961]

Okay, HSS it is. I see that Arceuro have a set at a good price.

What about a compound slide ? That looks useful too or would this just sit in drawer unused ?

**LINK**

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

Brian, I think you would be better getting one or two pieces of either or one of each 4 mm and 6mm HSS, And grind up your tools. Don't know the size/length of HSS in UK but I get 100 mm lengths and notch it with the grinder, wrap in in a bit of rag, clamp it in the vice just below the notch, and hit it with a hammer. REMEMBER wrap it in a rag in case of splinters, and so that you don't spend the rest of the day looking for the bit that you hit.

Ian S C

[Brian JohnParticipant @brianjohn93961]

I have never used a lathe before so it is going to be difficult enough wondering what I have done wrong with the machine without having to also worry about whether the cutting tools are the correct shape. I think the most sensible thing do in the beginner's phase is to use a set of cutting tools that I know have been cut correctly. At least then when things do not work out I will know it is my lack of expertise with the machine.

After I have gained some experience in using the machine then I may look at cutting my own tools.

[Ketan SwaliParticipant @ketanswali79440]

Brian,

Get these from http://www.ausee.com.au

http://www.ausee.com.au/shop/item.aspx?itemid=105 which is a parting off tool and blade

and ask him to get you:

6mm Spare HSS Toolbits 6x6x60mm (2pc Set) 060-320-00900 which is on this page of ARCs website:

http://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/Catalogue/Machines-Accessories/Lathes/C0-Baby-Lathe/C0-Baby-Lathe-Cutting-Tools

Alternatively you can buy the above from ARC, but handling and carriage to your destination is expensive.

Ketan at ARC.

[Brian JohnParticipant @brianjohn93961]

I already have the parting off tool and a spare blade which I purchased from Ausee.

Why the 6mm HSS tool bits ….why not the 8mm cutting tools ?

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

You will only be cutting with the first 0.25- 0.5mm of the tip, so the shank size is largely irrelevant on a small machine like the C0. The smaller tools will work just as well but will be easier to set and give better access to small workpieces. I use both 6 and 98mm on a C2/3 type machine and many inserted tip tools meant for larger lathes use ~4.75mm bits (actually 3/16&quot.

Neil

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Brian John on 26/12/2014 17:01:03:

I already have the parting off tool and a spare blade which I purchased from Ausee.

Why the 6mm HSS tool bits ….why not the 8mm cutting tools ?

.

Brian,

I may be corrected [again], but I believe that the toolpost on the optional topslide accepts a maximum of 1/4". [see Little Machine Shop description, here.]

MichaelG.

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 26/12/2014 17:32:26

[Roger Provins 2Participant @rogerprovins2]

Posted by Brian John on 26/12/2014 12:52:06:

…………. I think the most sensible thing do in the beginner's phase is to use a set of cutting tools that I know have been cut correctly. At least then when things do not work out I will know it is my lack of expertise with the machine.

After I have gained some experience in using the machine then I may look at cutting my own tools.

That's exactly the route I took as I wanted to know in reality what they should look like and not just from diagrams.

Since then I've ground my own.

[Author]

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