Can summer car tyres be used in winter?

[pgk pgkParticipant @pgkpgk17461]

I suppose that one could argue that when fitted the 21% O2 at atmospheric pressure is 'diluted' by the pressure fill of Nitrogen…add 2 atmospheres pressure and your down to 7%..?

ABS is less machine gun on my latest car but still fairly obvious when triggered but i donlt think it's active below some set speed. It never goes off on slow country lanes with loose gravel even if stamping on the brakes to avoid wildlife. My previous GT86 with its traction control was potentially evil. On my country roads in greasy conditions (wet leaves) it spun 30 degs on a slow corner but then i had to fight the traction control that now wanted to keep going straight on to the hedge.

pgk

[Noel MurphyParticipant @noelmurphy40921]

If the oxygen in tyres leaks in preference to the nitrogen, then the concentration of nitrogen should increase over time. If you lose 10cc of oxygen, then when you refill with air you add 8cc of nitrogen and 2cc of oxygen.

I seem to remember a spy film where our hero survived underwater by breathing the air from his car tyres. Be a bit of a disappointment to find they'd been filled with nitrogen.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

I think the main benefit of Nitrogen inflation is that the gas comes from a bottle, and should therefore be clean and dry.

The Air comes from whatever grotty compressor system.

MichaelG.

[Steve NeighbourParticipant @steveneighbour43428]

Pure Nitrogen has been used in Aircraft tyres for years, the main reason being that 100% Nitrogen has zero moisture, when a aircraft is cruising at 35-40k feet with the OAT at around -57deg C any moisture would freeze, if the ice didn't melt when landing it could cause a serious 'wheel balance' and vibration problem.

In the average domestic car, I doubt the benefits would outweigh the extra cost, potentially the pressure loss is slower (Nitrogen molecules are larger) and if you have steel wheels it eliminates any corrosion, but 'most' cars have alloy wheels now so that benefit is eliminated anyway.

Steve N

[old martParticipant @oldmart]

I would recon that at least 90% of tyres sold in the UK are summer type.

[Peter G. ShawParticipant @peterg-shaw75338]

pgk,

Funnily enough, that one experience of ABS was on that heap of absolute rubbish I mentioned above, and it happened at quite a low speed as I was travelling quite slowly down a snow covered road and I felt I was going just a bit too fast so I gently applied the footbrake. Rat-tat-tat-tat etc. Speed, oh I dunno, 10mph? 15mph? something of that order.

Ok, maybe I was going too fast – 2nd gear, diesel, tickover, you tell me.

Peter G. Shaw.

Edited By Peter G. Shaw on 17/06/2020 15:14:48

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Depends were you live.

British weather is generally mild so fitting winter tyres here is rarely worth it. There are exceptions. West Wales is considerably wetter and mountainous than Southern England, and Scotland and the hilly North can be challenging too.

Some lucky people live at the end of an unmade road. Not me! I last thought about winter tyres in 1979…

Dave

[V8EngParticipant @v8eng]

Of course everybody will only use Oxygen Free Nitrogen on car tyres!👹

Edited By V8Eng on 17/06/2020 16:43:47

Edited By V8Eng on 17/06/2020 16:45:23

[Alan VosParticipant @alanvos39612]

Posted by Peter G. Shaw on 17/06/2020 09:18:37:

I then moved onto Michelin Energy+, and now am on Michelin Cross Climates. My suspicion is that the Cross Climates are noisier than the Energy+s, and possibly slightly less good on mileage. On the one occasion we did get some snow recently (two years ago?) I deliberately tried to provoke a sideways slip with harsh braking at a low speed. No-one else was around so it was quite safe. The car pulled up in a dead straight line when I expected at least a gentle sideslip. So was that the Cross Climates? Don't know, but on that very unscientific test, I'm staying with them.

A few years ago, when the original Hankook tyres on a car wore out, following an icy winter, I replaced them with Michelin CrossClimate. My thinking being that as those are certified for winter use, they ought to cope better with the worst British weather. I never found out. It failed to snow the next two winters. Then I sold the car. They did behave very well through standing water. The tendency to pull to one side was greatly reduced.

[pgk pgkParticipant @pgkpgk17461]

Posted by Peter G. Shaw on 17/06/2020 15:13:47:

pgk,

Funnily enough, that one experience of ABS was on that heap of absolute rubbish I mentioned above, and it happened at quite a low speed as I was travelling quite slowly down a snow covered road and I felt I was going just a bit too fast so I gently applied the footbrake. Rat-tat-tat-tat etc. Speed, oh I dunno, 10mph? 15mph? something of that order.

Ok, maybe I was going too fast – 2nd gear, diesel, tickover, you tell me.

Peter G. Shaw.

Edited By Peter G. Shaw on 17/06/2020 15:14:48

Technology changes. The Tesla can probably do clever stuff with pulsing regeneration braking as well as actual brake and in common with other fancy cars it has acoustic liners to the wheel arches and acoustic foam in standard tyres so everything is quieter.

pgk

[Roderick JenkinsParticipant @roderickjenkins93242]

Posted by Alan Vos on 17/06/2020 17:27:48:

A few years ago, when the original Hankook tyres on a car wore out, following an icy winter, I replaced them with Michelin CrossClimate.

We've done the same on our Kodiaq 4×4. Not really necessary down here on the Dorset coast you may think but we take the car to the snowy Alps twice a year. They behave impecably in snow and ice and are alpine certified so no need to fit chains when the police stop you at the bottom of mountain passes. Doesn't appear to be a down side in terms of wear or noise and they were only slightly more than a normal premium tyre.

Stay well,

Rod

[Mike PooleParticipant @mikepoole82104]

The Scandinavians and the Germans are set up for winter tyres, they have storage facilities for your complete winter wheels and changing over is like a pit stop. It was a standing joke at the factory that everyone with a BMW on our car scheme would be a no show when it snowed, in more recent years winter tyres were offered on the car scheme as a BMW saloon is unlikely to get off your drive on summer tyres in the snow. A friend had to leave his M5 at home and come to work in his stepsons 1 litre Corsa which had no problems on its skinny tyres.

Mike

[Danny M2ZParticipant @dannym2z]

Once you get the car moving and the tyres warm up the what's the difference?

Touch your tyres after a trip, they get quite warm.

Only difference that I can see is deeper lugs on the treads to handle snow (it actually does snow here in Australia) so when I visit alpine places it is mandatory to fit "Snow Chains" if I wish to go fishing at Rocky Valley dam. Rocky Valley

More important IMHO is to change the engine oil to a winter grade to handle low temps (check your service manual).

* Danny M *

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Posted by Danny M2Z on 18/06/2020 07:22:15:

Once you get the car moving and the tyres warm up the what's the difference?

Problem with that is at least in the UK you are most likely to need the snow tyres when you start your journey from home on uncleared small roads until you get to ones that have been ploughed/salted. You will then be creaping along or in a traffic jam so no heat generated which again means cold tyres when you leave the major roads and have snow covered ones at the end of your journey.

Braking and cornering loads will also be less when driving in snow so less heat put into the type even when moving and I'm sure the F1 guys will still like to select a compound to suit track temps and insist there is a difference.

Snow tyres are generally narrower than the cars normal road tyres which which increases ground pressure so the tread can bite into the snow better.

Edited By JasonB on 18/06/2020 07:50:44

[Ex contributorParticipant @mgnbuk]

More important IMHO is to change the engine oil to a winter grade to handle low temps (check your service manual).

Something that has not been required here for decades. Modern multigrade lubricants are very low viscocity anyway – 0W30 or 0W20 is the default for many modern engines & even the older ones were 5W30 or 10W40. Not much scope to go for a lower viscosity there. Unlike Australia, we don't have to worry about very high temperatures – low 30's is about as hot as I gets in the UK, though it was 43 degrees C in Northern Italy when I was there last summer. My 5W30 lubricated diesel motorhome didn't complain at that & also ran fine at -3 degrees C locally over Christmas.

Best car I had for snow traction was a rear engined Skoda Estelle 120L5 – narrow tyres + the engine & gearbox weight over them + a softly tuned engine, it had no problems with West Yorshire hills in snow. It did benefit from a couple of bags of sand in the boot over the front wheels to improve the steering, though.

Nigel B.

[Martin BryarsParticipant @martinbryars38535]

I would also recommend Michelin Cross Climate tyres. I drive to the Alps twice a winter and the grip in snow and ice is excellent. They are also much better in standing water or on wet roads than the Continentals they replaced, which were what was fitted new. My wife is convinced that general roadholding and ride is improved and certainly they wear better. I don't notice that they are any noisier. My car is a 4wd Audi, estate (not an SUV).

[steveteeParticipant @stevetee]

Posted by Anthony Knights on 17/06/2020 07:31:54:

I've always wondered what's so special about filling your tyres with nitrogen. After all, normal air is at least 70% nitrogen. Sounds like a scam to me. Same as using Argon in double glazing cavities.

Nitrogen is a large molecule so does not migrate through the rubber like some of the lighter atmospheric gasses. That means that if you blow up your tyres with air, it's quite likely that they will lose about 20% pressure in the first month or two. After topping up once or twice they will be effectively full of nitrogen anyway, once the other gasses have permeated away, so the pressures are unlikely to change much after that . Yes why pay.

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