Brimsdown pillar drill reputation

[RainbowsParticipant @rainbows]

Looking into buying a pedestal drill, marked "Brimsdown ST1". Just thought I would do a quick sweep here if anyone can claim to have one. Google couldn't find anything at all. Well made? Sloppy piece of rubbish? Its going to be a restoration project either way but I am wondering if I will be polishing a poo.

[RainbowsParticipant @rainbows]

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

Brimsdown " A " Power Station is all I get from The Engineer

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

Country of origin? If Chinese, it is more likely to be poo already.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by not done it yet on 15/09/2017 07:20:04:

Country of origin? If Chinese, it is more likely to be poo already.

Thanks for your well-considered and unbaised contribution to this thread

[VicParticipant @vic]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 15/09/2017 09:52:15:

Posted by not done it yet on 15/09/2017 07:20:04:

Country of origin? If Chinese, it is more likely to be poo already.

Thanks for your well-considered and unbaised contribution to this thread

I think if it's a green one it's probably ok.

[Mike E.Participant @mikee-85511]

Can you post photos of it ?

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

North American, GB, Japanese, Taiwanese and a few others are likely, or possibly, good, but if is an unknown make and of Chinese origin, I would not be so confident as Neil might be. I'm not biased on this one, methinks. Just an honest opinion.

[larry PhelanParticipant @larryphelan54019]

Chinese might not be all that bad, they do good take aways.

[MWParticipant @mw27036]

Posted by not done it yet on 15/09/2017 11:19:31:

North American, GB, Japanese, Taiwanese and a few others are likely, or possibly, good, but if is an unknown make and of Chinese origin, I would not be so confident as Neil might be. I'm not biased on this one, methinks. Just an honest opinion.

I think it really comes down to the cost, if you paid less than $100 for a new pillar drill, gotta make you wonder hasn't it? How on earth could they make it that cheaply, somewhere along those lines, then you might expect lower quality.

Just like so, if you pay $5 for a set of 3 adjustable wrenches or $40 for one. Theres going to be very likely a huge difference in quality regardless of where you bought it.

Ketan from arc often tells of how theres good, very high end Chinese gear and bad, bottom of the rung chinese, just like anywhere else in the world.

In my personal opinion, go for what you're going to use it for, and in my case, I do want to pay a premium for something better because I want to use it a lot. 

If I were a painter/decorator, I would want some decent brushes for my work, but if I just want to paint up my garden shed i'll pop down to joe blogs D.I.Y store and get whatevers going. 

Michael W

Edited By Michael-w on 15/09/2017 12:14:01

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by not done it yet on 15/09/2017 11:19:31:

…

Just an honest opinion.

"Honest opinions" are worthless in Engineering terms I'm afraid and also a logical fault.

The OED defines opinion thus:

What one opines; a judgement resting on grounds insufficient for complete demonstration; belief of something as probable or as seeming to one's own mind to be true. (Distinct from knowledge, conviction or certainty...)

It means that opinions, whoever holds them, are likely to be crap. Yours, mine and everyone else.

The logic fault is more subtle:

• first, it's Inductive. You can't conclude 'All British coffee is horrible because Some British coffee is nasty'. Some is not all. The conclusion is drawn from insufficient evidence.
• second, an opinion can't be considered 'honest' in the sense that it's truthful, respectful, fair or straightforward. Again the problem is that the opinion isn't supported by facts. If it was it wouldn't be an opinion.

I'm not throwing rocks – when I look closely I find that much of what I 'know' is wrong, often because it's an opinion. We all guilty.

Dave

 

 

Edited By SillyOldDuffer on 15/09/2017 12:19:24

[RainbowsParticipant @rainbows]

Got asked £150 including delivery for it which is in the hmmmmm area considering the motor needs rewiring apparently but at the same time not so bad to be instantly against it. Currently waiting answers to if it has a MT spindle, motor power and so on.

[Mike E.Participant @mikee-85511]

From the photo, the table doesn't look booger'd up, so that's a good indication of the life its had. If its in your area, why not go and check it out ?

[Brian GParticipant @briang]

Looking at the photos Rainbows has posted of his other equipment, coupled with the phrase "Its going to be a restoration project" suggests an older machine. (Edit: so do the pictures Rainbows has posted whilst I typed this)  A quick check on Lathes.co.uk comes up with two machine tool suppliers in Enfield, both close to Brimsdown, H D Murray **LINK** and W H Bass **LINK** . I wonder if either of these could be responsible?

Brian

Edited By Brian G on 15/09/2017 14:34:02

[Clive FosterParticipant @clivefoster55965]

Looks to be a lesser known brand version of the common industrial / workshop style British pillar drill say mid 1950's to late 1970's era. Sturdy straightforward design. Providing the quill fit in the casting, rack drive to quill and spline drive to the spindle are still good it will be fine. Spindle bearings will probably be commodity items so no worries there. Broken quill return clock-spring is the obvious major headache. Factory spares clearly unobtainium so finding another breed to fit may be a challenge. Or can such be custom made for not too silly ££?

Been got at during its life. Probably inevitably. Motor looks to be plain bearing one which generally don't like running shaft vertical as they usually don't have proper thrust bearing. Just a washer affair. Switch on front looks to be either direction or speed selector. Usually a cam switch behind that sort of knob which isn't up to motor start current switching duties. OEM would have been a proper NVF contractor set-up. Maybe with a foot operated emergency button on the foot. About half the ones of that style I've seen have such a button. Darn useful for a lot of jobs. I've known woodworkers who habitually use the foot button to stop the machine.

Almost certainly a thee phase machine originally. Agree that £150 is in the hmmmm area. But delivery is a decent bonus especially if it's into the workshop. Hefty pillar drills are a total PIA to deal with in my experience, 2 Pollards & a TOS with MT2, MT 3 and MT 5 spindles respectively. Expect to have £200 – £250 in it by the time you are happy, including return from trading the motor on if it is unsuitable for vertical use.

That style of tall "welly boot" style foot mount machine isn't one I like. Understand the excellent engineering reasons for doing things that way but if its going to be that tall might as well make all the height useable. Seriously look into arranging some sort of screw lift arrangement, or at least a counterweight, for the table. It will be heavy. Twisting and hoicking to lift it won't be good for your back. Halfway through a fortnights light duties ( AKA known as bored to tears) due to putting my back out making the bed so a sore point right now. Might be room for a simple screw in a column underneath the middle of the table. Perhaps repurpose parts from an old type "push in the side of the sill" car jack. My Pollard 15AY has such a table lift screw, albeit of double screw in a screw form, and its Great.

Clive

Edited By Clive Foster on 15/09/2017 15:33:56

Edited By Clive Foster on 15/09/2017 15:34:43

[Andrew TinsleyParticipant @andrewtinsley63637]

£150 delivered is definitely in the hmm area. Having said that, although it looks tatty and forlorn, it can probably be turned into a decent machine. It depends on the motor and return spring, quill etc. I would check it over first before parting with my cash.

Andrew.

[MWParticipant @mw27036]

That's a genuine Jacobs chuck on there.

Michael W

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Very tricky to price old tools. With a working motor this example got £40 at auction in April.

Described as a 'Pillar Drill' but I see no pillar.

Dave

[Alan VosParticipant @alanvos39612]

At one time, the Brimsdown area was full of mechanical engineering firms. Enfield Rolling Mills survived until around 1980. It is conceivable this is an 'in house' model, or an apprentice piece.

It took two attempts to demolish one of the cooling towers of the aforementioned power station. I watched the second.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 15/09/2017 15:52:09:

Very tricky to price old tools. With a working motor this example got £40 at auction in April.

Described as a 'Pillar Drill' but I see no pillar.

Dave

Oops! Didn't make it clear but the picture of the £40 drill is of another Brimsdown ST1

[Clive FosterParticipant @clivefoster55965]

Interesting comparison between Daves and Rainbows pictures of the Brimsdown drills. The one in Daves picture is clearly older as having flat belt drive with limited guarding. It also appears to have a proper old style heavy duty rotary on off switch which is certainly up to handling motor starter loads if need be. Big contacts and a hefty spring loaded detent that loudly goes "Ker-Chunk" when the switch operates. One of my Pollard drills had what looks to be the same thing on the side clearly intended as an isolator switch as Fred Pollard put a pair of super heavy duty, monster contact, buttons high up on the head to do the normal start stop thing via a contractor hidden in the column. Hafta say that the operation of such switches always seemed far too heavy for normal duties. Needed a serious twist to turn them.

Unusual to see that configuration of drill with an ordinary style of table. Usually the table is a flat base with appropriate centre hole and slots having a vertical pillar affixed upon which the head slides up and down. Have seen such referred to a precision bench drills but suspect that that designation really belongs to the baby chuck high speed types intended for PCB drilling and the like. UK made examples invariably being massively overbuilt for such duties. You can see the pillar poking up between the pulleys in Daves picture but there is clearly a gap between whatever foot the machine stands on and the floor beneath. So what its actually stands on and whether the table can be moved independently in the common bench drill fashion are moot points.

Seems odd that both should be called ST1 as the head castings must be rather different. The casting on Rainbows floor mount version being extended down to just below chuck level ending in a square flange bolting to a mating one on top of the main pillar. That layout is impossible on the one pictured by Dave which must do without most or even all of the extension and have the head bored to slide on the pillar in the common modern fashion.

As for cost evaluation I think the only sensible way is to decide how much you are willing or able to pay for how much capability and go from there. Sometimes you get lucky with a real bargain sometimes you need to pay a realistic price. Trying to get too much for your money usually ends in tears before bedtime. Hafta accept that there is always somebody who gets a better bargain, especially as half the time said somebody isn't telling the full story!

Clive

Edited By Clive Foster on 15/09/2017 22:59:10

[RainbowsParticipant @rainbows]

Could always happen to have the guard and V belts added on later. Daves guard appears to be a cast part where mine is a simple sheet metal piece with no stamping to imply mass production.

Seller hasn't replied since though so it seems to be dead in the water. Having a morse taper is a must for the price range and in general dont fancy dealing with people with poor communication skills.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

It's entirely depends on whether or not it's clapped out. I would want to look at it and check the spindle doesn't waggle like a stick in a bucket.

Otherwise it looks OK, but the lack of a rack an pinion on the table may explain why it hasn't had a great deal of use and make you wish you had invested in a piece of poo that has got a rack instead.

Neil

[MWParticipant @mw27036]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 16/09/2017 18:07:44:

Otherwise it looks OK, but the lack of a rack an pinion on the table may explain why it hasn't had a great deal of use and make you wish you had invested in a piece of poo that has got a rack instead.

Neil

This is exactly why I ended up going for a Clarke pillar drill that has a rack and a longer pillar, despite the fact it cost me quite a bit more

[RainbowsParticipant @rainbows]

I went up another £50 and bought a Elliot Progress No 2, thats £200 inc delivery. Still no table rack but a working motor, back geared spindle and known brand help a lot. Seen them go for more so the buyers remorse isn't too bad. Still was more than my lathe though

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