Boiler Design – issue 4765

[JasonB]

On JasonB Said:

Well if proof were needed that AI does not get things wrong, have a look at the latest GROK of S**t it has come up with posted on MEinT hialand’s forum.

How anyone can post something containing the statement “e.g., 6” diameter ≈ 0.34 liters” as a way to discredit Mark De Barr’s reply is hard to understand. Even if the 6″ diameter were used to work out an area without the missing length there is no way it could even approximately equal a volume. And you don’t need to be an engineer or have letters after your name to spot that GWOK has got it wrong 😉

Even AI itself s\ys the statement is incorrect, or should I not believe that either😂😂😂

Hi, doesn’t even get the area of a 6″ circle correct by the look of it.

Regards Nick.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Did not do very well with the Sphere either as a 6″ sphere would be 1.85lts

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi JasonB, long long while since I learnt how to work out sphere volumes, but I did find a calculator online, which gave the answer by just putting the parameters in, but I then found a formula to work it out, although it took a little time to understand it, which is shown in Cu. mm. I did think the one shown in the post was wrong though.

Regards Nick.

[MEinThailandParticipant @meinthailand]

Jason B said that the Grok Report was “a way to discredit Mark De Barr’s reply”.

On the contrary, as it says in the introduction to the Grok Report it is “completely independent, unbiased and unedited Analysis Report by Elon Musk’s Grok AI”.

In no way can that be interpreted by any sane person as being “a way to discredit Mark De Barr’s reply”.

I never said that (any) AI always gets it right. You will find that many AIs do state themselves that they are prone to making mistakes.

In fact this is a quote from a post I made on the subject:-

On 1 August 2025 at 00:13 MEinThailand Said:

I’ve done a lot of engineering work using the AI bot Copilot. It makes plenty of mistakes. Sometimes it cannot even do simple arithmetic.

 

Just one example, I used Copilot to develop Excel spreadsheets to calculate flat plate and stay thicknesses in copper model boilers. This demands an iterative solution which Copilot struggled with. I pointed out to Copilot that Copilot’s approach would generate circular references in Excel and indeed it did. Copilot’s response was to ask me to look for these circular references errors and then, notify Copilot then it would find a work-around, which was done.

 

But a human would have drawn a flowchart first before coding the spreadsheet. Copilot didn’t do that and was relying on it’s ‘memory’ of the equations to iron out the errors. But it couldn’t figure out the flow of the formulas it had given me. Copilot and I guess all AI bots can’t think.

 

Often, when I point out an error in Copilot’s responses it replied with “Great Catch”. Ridiculous.

Yes, Copilot is a great tool that can be used to help solve engineering problems and is a great tool for model engineers to use. But you’ve got to know what you’re doing.

 

In effect you’ve got to have pretty good idea of what the answer should be before you start.

AI bots are the way of the future. They’re no perfect, but will become better.

Better to get used to them and to work with them despite their faults than to deny their existence and stay in the past. (Oh! I forgot, this is the forum of diehard Luddists who just want to remain in the past and never open their eyes to new things)

I notice the glee with which some people on this forum delight in slandering and picking holes in certain posts. Like they’ve got a secret agenda to discredit anything they don’t agree with.

This is supposed to be a hobby that we model engineers enjoy. Instead, on this forum, the joy has gone and has been replaced by nastiness, vitriol and hatred.

And now certain posters are resorting to profanity. This really is a new low for the forum.

On other model engineering forums, there are lively debates and differences of opinion. But largely people behave with decorum, as engineers should.

Can we not put aside all this animosity and start to enjoy the hobby once again?

 

 

 

 

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

I was just surprised you would post the Review, even if unedited without a comment that some of the content is incorrect. A second post highlighting the errors may have given a truer reflection of MdB’ reply.

How much more of it is incorrect or how much of the previous review of your article is correct?

Can you explain the two errors I have highlighted in yesterdays posts? There is another reason BS 12953 may not apply to some model boiler, but Grok failed to pick that up.

I would not class myself as a Ludite but I don’t just blindly believe what is put infront of me.

[MEinThailandParticipant @meinthailand]

JasonB I will check the points you raised which are perfectly valid and will respond here when I have done that.

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi, I don’t class myself a Luddite either, and we all make mistakes. The area of the circle was not only wrong, but not anywhere near close to being correct, and I learnt how to calculate the area of a circle in primary school with pencil and paper, no electronic calculators were around back then with the convenience of the symbol for Pi or other things like the 2 to denote and calculate the squaring etc. Makes one wonder if todays school children can learn anything to be correct.

Regards Nick.

[JasonB]

On JasonB Said:

[…] However, Grok’s conclusion does raise the question of what Grok defines as a “model” boiler ? […]

Given that AI is currently still learning from human discussions … is it any surprise that the poor thing has difficulty with the word “model” ?

This forum has yet to agree a working definition.

MichaelG.

[Dave HalfordParticipant @davehalford22513]

And just when does a model become a miniature?

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

And what about a freelance design that is not a model or miniature of anything??

[Author]

Posts