Bee Keeping

[JAParticipant @ja]

I appear to have a bees nest in a blue tit nest box. I have not had a "close" look since I am still using crutches/sticks following a hip replacement. A neighbour has suggested that they are tree bees, a recent invasive beast from abroad. Are there such things and if so do they have a mild temperament?

JA

[Clive HartlandParticipant @clivehartland94829]

I have been beekeeping for almost 50 years now and have tried most variations of beekeeping but now do the. 'Leave alone ' method , I do not interfere in their life cycle anymore.

Since the arrival of Varroa the Queen fertility has decreased, no longer do you have a Queen who lasts 2 years anymore. Another factor is the weather which affects the mating, as poor weather will stop Drones making a Drone congregation for mating. Further to this, it needs 72 hours at 68 F for flowers to start giving nectar, we do not seem to have 2 days in a row to let the flowers do this. The, the bushes/trees blossom and we get low temps. and high winds which put the bees off flying. A Queen mated maybe 5 times can barely get through the year before the bees sense her decline and try to supercede her but it is Autumn and there are no longer any Drones to mate with.Normal mating is 12 to 15 times. The queen is thrown out and there is no longer any laying Queen and the hive dies out as Spring comes along. My bees did not work the Hawthorn nor the Brambles due to poor cold weather at the time, now the only thing left is some wild flowers and Ivy.

There is more going on in the insect world than we know, the advent of residual pesticides and herbicides has damaged the bees for a long time, Neonicotinoids are particularly lethal as they stay in the soil for up to 24 months. and contrary to the manufacturer's detail do get into pollen. This causes death of the pupa, disorientation of flying bees (Alzhiemers for bees) they go out and cannot find their way home, and slow down development of the hives in Spring.

Thinking back to prior to 89 was that my yields were far greater than now, 200lb against 100lb now.

Clive

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by JA on 17/07/2016 15:56:47:

I appear to have a bees nest in a blue tit nest box. I have not had a "close" look since I am still using crutches/sticks following a hip replacement. A neighbour has suggested that they are tree bees, a recent invasive beast from abroad. Are there such things and if so do they have a mild temperament?

Possibly Tree Bumble Bees – they like old bird nests. They reached the UK in 2001 but unlike most invaders they seem unlikely to cause the ecological chaos of many new arrivals.

They have whitetails. Lots of ID charts on the web but i don't know if any feature the new arrival.

Neil

[Steve WithnellParticipant @stevewithnell34426]

Posted by Clive Hartland on 17/07/2016 16:11:32:

There is more going on in the insect world than we know, the advent of residual pesticides and herbicides has damaged the bees for a long time, Neonicotinoids are particularly lethal as they stay in the soil for up to 24 months. and contrary to the manufacturer's detail do get into pollen. This causes death of the pupa, disorientation of flying bees (Alzhiemers for bees) they go out and cannot find their way home, and slow down development of the hives in Spring.

Clive

Hi Clive, how are bees affected by Glycophosphates? There seems to be quite a backlash about the EU's intent to ban them.

Steve

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

how are bees affected by Glycophosphates?

 

You are referring to glyphosate (monsanto 'round-up&#39?  That is a herbicide, not an insecticide. I'm not aware of the effects on bees, if anything seriously deleterious, but it is bad news when used in large quantities on GM crops supplied by monanto as 'round-up ready'.

 

The idea is that weeds can be controlled without affecting the crop. Unfortunately some weeds are becoming a huge nuisance because they, too, are either already resistant to glyphosate or are becoming more so – requiring ever greater doses of the herbicide. Not good, because glphosate has greatly increased the incidence of de

formed offspring in mammals (humans in Argentina and also farm animals that are fed on those crops).

 

 

Bad news as the levels of glyphosate in the food chain is caus

ing concern for hum

an health. They may well have shot themselves in the foot as this herbicide has been in use for decades and is now showing up these nasty effects because of their GM activities and increased use on food crops. Attention, too, for dessicating crops such as OilSeed Rape, prior to combining. No not good news all round for monsanto!

 

 

 

 

Edited By not done it yet on 17/07/2016 18:49:52

[Clive HartlandParticipant @clivehartland94829]

From previous reports in the Bee keeping mags. there were tests done during the Colony collapse disorder. Then they found some 24 different chemicals related to pesticides and herbicides related to crops treated with such items, remember that the bees collect pollen and they store this as protein. It is obvious to me that crop dusting is also getting involved with the pollen as it drifts. In France there is an ongoing legal case from the beekeepers on the other side of the Rhine where crop dusting carried across the Rhine and killed off 10000 hives, so it is pretty lethal. Bayer are lying scoundrels and that is why Neonicotioids are getting banned as the maker gave one set of results and the researchers found something totally different when they tested it.

Luckily I am away from any place that uses these things as most of the land around me is derelict orchards full of Bramble and other delights for bees.

Clive

[MWParticipant @mw27036]

Posted by Steve Withnell on 17/07/2016 18:21:36:

Posted by Clive Hartland on 17/07/2016 16:11:32:

 

There is more going on in the insect world than we know, the advent of residual pesticides and herbicides has damaged the bees for a long time, Neonicotinoids are particularly lethal as they stay in the soil for up to 24 months. and contrary to the manufacturer's detail do get into pollen. This causes death of the pupa, disorientation of flying bees (Alzhiemers for bees) they go out and cannot find their way home, and slow down development of the hives in Spring.

 

Clive

 

Hi Clive, how are bees affected by Glycophosphates? There seems to be quite a backlash about the EU's intent to ban them.

Steve

Well i read about this in a copy of the farmers weekly and the debate isn't exactly clear cut and the waters are muddied. The problem is when glyphosate is used purely on it's own, it isn't a carcinogen and bayer themselves tried to use this as evidence that the products are therefore safe, however, when an independent group of scientists tested the commercial products in use, not glyphosate as a pure substance, which are mixed with all other sorts of things, they found that it definitely was carcinogenic. Everyone knows that nobody uses pure glyphosate and farmers usually water down roundup. So this is why there is a move to ban it.

The problem is, as "not done yet" said, these products have been in use for decades because they were so effective. Presumably, it started out as using neat glyphosate and then industry began mixing their own formulas to give farmers the best bang per buck. The whole industry is built on using it. So this is why farmers are kicking up a stink because if they can't use it there isn't another alternative.

For farming, this has been compared to going back to the stone age, because all the pest control technology has been built around chemicals, mainly. So they'd be back to using natural predators to keep the pests down and that isn't easy to do, that can also disrupt the ecosystem anyway. Farmers would have to accept poorer yields and greater seasonal dependency rather than producing a reliable average per yield.

It wouldn't just hit farmers but all of us, prices could see dramatic seasonal raises or even shortages. So we'd have to accept a higher food bill at times.

The problem is it's like our governing bodies in britain are wearing lead boots, they only want to do something about it until it starts causing major problems, rather than nip it in the bud before it gets worse. So they'll wait until large swathes of wildlife are killed or people get seriously ill from it before acting.

They have a proven track record of avoiding any kind of policy towards social engineering and prefer a "do as you wish" laid back approach to government, so they would be quite happy to turn a blind eye to the evidence and wait til it hits home first. We can see that behavior in every area of government.

Michael W

Edited By Michael Walters on 17/07/2016 21:20:27

[AndyAParticipant @andya]

We've just had a swarm of 30-40,000 honey bees collected this evening. Fascinating to talk to the guys who came to collect them. I hadn't realised how a hive worked until this evening.

[MikeParticipant @mike89748]

I remember reading Rachel Carson's "The Silent Spring" when it came out in the early 60s, and hoping it would bring the world to its senses. Apparently, it didn't. Later I recall the awful stink of Metasystox spray – you could smell it at least a mile down-wind of the field on to which it had been applied. I also saw the result when a farm worker washed out an apparently-empty Metasystox drum in a stream – dead fish for at least 100 yards. Now we learn that pesticides are lethal to bees, and that a dearth of insects is hitting songbird poulations. Will we ever learn, or is it just me growing into a grumpy old man?

[Speedy Builder5Participant @speedybuilder5]

Andy A, you just said goodbye to £120 or more. Could have bought a new chuck for that.
BobH

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

you just said goodbye to £120 or more.

No beekeeper worth his/her salt would try to make that sort of money from a swarm.

May have been a prime swarm but old queen. May have been a cast, but would have been much smaller than a prime. Not many primes would be 40k, either!

Temperament may be vile, and last but not least they have no health certificate, although most are healthy. They need to be run on for several weeks to be sure they are of good temperament, health, etc

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

'swarm? You're telling me 'swarm? I'm melting…

Neil

[Clive HartlandParticipant @clivehartland94829]

Re- swarms, we have several wild bees nests here in the woods, they last at most a couple of years until disease overtakes them. I personally would not take a swarm from them as the Varroa with its virus vector carries on the virus load in the swarm. Ideally now all wild swarms and nest should be eradicated to help protect the normal bees.

Down the road they took over a wood peckers hole in a cherry tree, they lasted 2 years before dying out, now the Squirrels are back in the holes!

Checked over mine last Tues. and they are just now starting to draw comb in the honey boxes., very late indeed having now missed all the Hawthorn, fruit blossom and Bramble flows. All thats left now is Ivy. and a bit of wild flower and if it gets warm for a week or more then some Clover.

It also looks now as if I will have to bring on the Nucleus hives as I have no takers this year. So into a National hive and up goes the price to £155. and they supply the Hive.

Clive. PS, the Lavender out front is normally crowded with Bumble bees at this time, I see none except for a couple of honey bees, where are the Bumbles?

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Is it true that all British bees died out during the first world war and had to be replaced by Mexican bees? I think I heard it on the radio recently but it's possible I dreamt it!

Cheers,

Dave

[MWParticipant @mw27036]

That does sound like dream material, then again it's scratching the surface on some of the freaky stuff i have to deal with sometimes. If i could trade dreams i would.

Michael W

[Clive HartlandParticipant @clivehartland94829]

You might be referring to the , 'Isle of Wight' disease which pretty well devastated British bee keeping at the time, the original British bee is a black bee and recently a few people say they have found wild colonies but seems now they are being very quiet about it. Also there is an isolated Island in Denmark which has these black bees and from what they know these seem to be the original strain. They are in quarantine and this to protect them from any disease that could damage them.

Re- the bees now, these mainly consist of Caucasion bees, also some Italian type bees but these do not like our climate and can be ferocious to work with. I did at one time have a colony of yellow bees but they were lazy and made brown wax and died out, no idea what they were. Many people have tried imported bees but they usually revert back to the bees that can live in our climate. Bees will mate with any other bees or types, so you usualy end up with Mongrel bees anyway as you cannot keep them pure or separated.

You have to understand that bees in a temperate climate behave differently to bees that live in say a Mediterranean climate or even a North African climate. As some of the hotter climate areas the bees are migratory such as the African bee Adonsi Adonsi, of the Brazilian Killer bee that got loose and is now invading the USA Southern States in the USA. and Mexico.

Clive, any questions happily answered.

Edited By Clive Hartland on 21/07/2016 18:13:50

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Thanks Clive – fascinating stuff! Trouble is I might get nightmares featuring Mongrel Brazilian Killer bees now.

I get lots of bees in my garden but how can I tell if they're honey bees or not? I don't think there are any beekeepers for miles.

Cheers,

Dave

[AndyAParticipant @andya]

 

 

It was the noise from the swarm that made us aware of their presence but even when standing 18" away from the compost bin they had tried to make home there was no sign of any hostility. When the lid was lifted on the bin the ring of bees around the top of it was 2" deep by 2" high and when moved to the transport box there really wasn't much space left in it for the bees.

As a result of this encounter we are considering getting two hives in the garden, looked after for us by experienced keepers. In return our garden is pollinated and the vegetable patch should be even better next year.

 

Edited By AndyA on 21/07/2016 21:27:34

Edited By AndyA on 21/07/2016 21:30:35

Edited By AndyA on 21/07/2016 21:31:22

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

Eradicate all wild bees and nests eradicated? So speaketh a true environmentalist? Banning beekeepers might be a better proposal!

[Clive HartlandParticipant @clivehartland94829]

Not Done Yet, You have missed the point of my explanation. If it were not for beekeepers using medication to treat the bees in hives then there would be no bees to keep. Varroa is a vector for about 7 Viruses, all deadly and damaging to bees. It will never now be eradicated but sadly we have to live with that.

As a Philanthropic bee keeper I pay through the nose to keep my bees as there is no profit and it is just a hobby, yes, I could walk away but I feel I have responsibilities and one of them is to make sure that any residual source of virus should be eliminated at source. Without control wild bees spread the Varroa by contact with other bees on flowers, passing the parasite from bee to bee unknowingly which is then carried back to the hive/nest and there it starts it's insidious task of killing off it's hosts.It's breeding cycle is 10 days against a bees 21 days and plus the damage done to Pupa in the comb causing deformed wings and 'K' wing virus. I am surprised that they survive all this ans I do my best to treat them.

Ask any environmentalist and sometimes it is necessary to kill off diseased stock. like Foot and Mouth or chickens that get ravaged by disease. At this moment there is a situation running with a virus that is killing rabbits, heamoragic something, But they are pests anyway. Nature can be cruel in many ways.

Clive

[john swift 1Participant @johnswift1]

they say you learn something new every day

just watched part of a channel 4 program about icing sugar

and it showed a clip dusting bees with icing sugar to control varroa mites

the idea being as the bees cleaned each other the mites would lose their grip and fall off and land in the bottom of the hive

John

 

Edited By john swift 1 on 03/10/2016 22:06:21

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

Dustig bees does not work. Yes, it gets rid of a few phoretic mites, but around 85% of the mites will be 

busy reproducing in the cells at most times.

 

 

Only useful for colonies with no brood, IMO. One problem is that the sugar, if too much, can damage or kill some of the brood. I have only used it on swarms or splits with no capped brood, by removing all the bees from the hive, rolling them in icing sugar, and then allowing them to crawl back into the hive.

 

 

The main problem , for survival of the honey bee, is humans. Who spread the varroa across the planet in double quick time, by transporting bees around the world? Who sprays/seed dresses insidious insecticides around the environmement, affecting all manner of non-target insects? Who lose lots of swarms, to become the next round of feral colonies each swarming season? Who parks bee colonies in close proximity to o

ne another so disease vectors are more easily transmitted between colonies? Who continually treats the bees with medications to remove most, but not all, varroa, thus keeping non-varroa-resistant colonies alive?

 

Yes, beekeepers, farmers (mainly, but horticuturists and gardeners, as well) and purveyors of nerve agent type poisons are very much to blame for the sorry state of our honey bee population.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited By not done it yet on 03/10/2016 23:22:56

[Rik ShawParticipant @rikshaw]

Your turn Clive – I do love your bee features!

Rik

[Anthony KendallParticipant @anthonykendall53479]

Posted by Rik Shaw on 03/10/2016 23:38:36:

Your turn Clive – I do love your bee features!

Rik

Me too, although there is the possibility of getting a bee in the bonnet.

[Clive HartlandParticipant @clivehartland94829]

The dusting of bees with powdered sugar is only to get them to clean themselves and each other, a reward of sugar for doing so. As, 'Not done yet' says, the varroa mites live in the cells feeding off the pupa body liquids.

I have dusted my bees but found it not effective.

The life cycle of the varroa is complex, but the basics are that it can breed 10 x quicker than the bees . This eventually overwhelms the hive population and it dies out due to a lack of workers. Further to this the Varroa is a vector for all the viruses that affect bees, Israeli virus, 'K' wing virus and others. Another horrific thing is that in the cell it affects the bees wings and they emerge from the cell minus wings and of course are flightless. A badly affected wild nest will have hundreds of bees running around beneath it. Control of Varroa is done at a time when the hive has a low egg laying cycle like this time of year when varroa, treatment is most effective. Impregnated strips of plastic can be hung between frames or Thymol impregnated pads can be put in and left over winter. There are new treatments coming onto the market all the time claiming all sorts of effective treatment control. Varroa seems to prefer Drone cells, and good control is to give drone base foundation and then burn it to kill the varroa.

While in Spain I spoke to a beekeeper and asked how he treated for varroa and he showed me a small tin of a treatment for sheep ticks and said that he diluted it 1000 to 1 and the varroa just fell off. Reading the tin showed it was a nerve agent pesticide so I would not eat Spanish honey.

Day before yesterday I treated all my bees with a Thymol pad which some hives chew up and throw out. I am not sure what that signifies, are they varroa free? I have used Oxalic acid diluted as a drip method between the combs, The point is that the varroa will become immune to treatment so you have to use another type.

During the US CCD problem they were importing bees from Australia and then found that they were importing bees infected with all sorts of problems. One cause of CCD ( Colony collapse Disorder) is what they call, 'Monoculture' pollen and nectar. This is where the bees are stuck collecting only one type of pollen, say, Almond, and they need multifloral collection to keep their immune systems good. Man is good at transferring dangerous pests and diseases around the world, Influenza is a good example.. Look at the Zika virus which has now reached many other countries.

One has to factor in other things like the weather and the changing pattern of seasons now, As a child I remember Easter being warm and sunny and swimming in the river, not now as it is cold wet and the river is foul from effluent from a supposedly safe sewage treatment works. We had determined seasons then but now the pattern is disrupted badly. This affects everything like the bees, pollination and growing seasons.

All I know and see is that the world is changing and not to the good. For years I collected honey in hundreds of lb's but now I am lucky to get 50lb's or so, and some hives give nothing and will barely survive winter. In 1976 I took more than 400lb of honey, a drought year but warm and sunny! The bees loved it!

Clive

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