Are we being listened to on the phone

[Frances IoMParticipant @francesiom58905]

“Come on chaps, lets have a smile, the world is NOT that bad.”
but that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t make it better and removing intrusive surveillance is one thing I am strongly in favour of.

[Another JohnSParticipant @anotherjohns]

Just for the fun of it – circa 2014-2015, when the organization I worked for was in upheaval, I was asked (an Internet protol and app guy) to work with RF frequency guys to put forth ideas for increasing throughput on cell phones.

Anyway, I created this picture – Wired magazine with Andrew Snowden on the "cover", and a utility to show where tracking connections went – I figured that about 80% of the data transported was "fluff", 20% real-user-wished-for data.

Needless to say, the report was thrown out – these RF guys wanted RF ideas, not caring about the amount of data.

I'm sure the tracking, etc is much worse now. The red names are the sites that the tool reported as being "fluff"

[mark costello 1Participant @markcostello1]

I use FireFox and targeted ads happen within a minute of viewing something. Just about as fast as getting to the next page.

[Bill PhinnParticipant @billphinn90025]

Posted by Howi on 27/03/2021 09:53:12:

If you have nothing to fear, why worry…

Come on chaps…the world is NOT that bad.

It depends where in the world you happen to be.

[Harry WilkesParticipant @harrywilkes58467]

Posted by Howi on 27/03/2021 09:53:12:

I am NOT paranoid, I just know someone is watching me.

just remember everything has a price, including freedom.

If you have nothing to fear, why worry.

Modern technology is wonderful, but comes at a price, if you think that price is too high, don't use the technology.

If it bothers you that much, become a hermit, remove yourself from modern society and see how long you last.

Come on chaps, lets have a smile, the world is NOT that bad.

Totally agree, some years back I wrote to a national newspaper criticising the then Prime Minister a couple of weeks later there was a knock on the door and a guy said come to change your electricity meter why I asked I not reported a problem got to be changed due to it's age ! Strange my meter why the only one changed in my cul-de-sac and all the other 13 houses were all built at the same time

H

[SamsarandaParticipant @samsaranda]

To digress slightly I think that we should all be concerned about the type and volume of information that Amazon is accumulating about us as individuals, to what purpose is the vast database to be put ? Dave W

[Green TechieParticipant @greentechie]

Just my two pence worth, but if you are concerned that a mobile is listening to what you are saying (especially not during a phone conversation) then remember that it would need to send that information somewhere. Any processing would be unlikely to happen on the phone and to upload audio would take detectable bandwidth, by which I mean you could see that the phone was using data (more obvious on a limited data plan). So if your mobile data and WiFi is off then there is nowhere for it to go. It could be recorded and uploaded later, but you could test that more easily by watching for an effect when you enable data again. Of course it could be covertly uploading data when data is not enabled, but that would take a special agreement with every mobile operator for specially marked unbilled data usage. It seems that a lot of people would have to be kept quiet if that is happening.

As regards the comment that what one person does on their device affects the ads seen on a different device; if they are on the same WiFi connection they are sharing the same IP address so that could explain the link.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Green Techie on 27/03/2021 19:42:10:

[…]

As regards the comment that what one person does on their device affects the ads seen on a different device; if they are on the same WiFi connection they are sharing the same IP address so that could explain the link.

.

Yes, that is explicitly stated in the LG User Agreement, and presumably [perhaps less explicitly] in others.

MichaelG.

.

Edit: __ and here’s an interesting glimpse at the other side:

https://www.exchangewire.com/blog/2020/11/12/unruly-and-lg-electronics-to-offer-smart-tv-inventory-through-global-partnership/

.

https://www.lg.com/global/business/webos

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 27/03/2021 20:10:54

[pgk pgkParticipant @pgkpgk17461]

Posted by Howi on 27/03/2021 09:53:12:…

just remember everything has a price, including freedom.

If you have nothing to fear, why worry….

One should be worried. It's not just Amazon or Google but credit card companies tracking purchase types, supermarkets, Systems tracking your GPS, systems listening for key words and a whole slew of facial recognition following you around.
It may seem innocuous but the freedom you value is eroded by the manipulations possible with all this data under the guise of protecting you and saving costs.

Fictional dystopian societies have 5 classic themes:
Government control, environmental destruction, technological control, loss of individualism and survival. The first four are already in hand.

We've lost much freedom of speech and the latest bill curbs aspects of protest and demonstration…

… it wasn't so long ago there were riots at the thought of identity cards and now most people pay to carry one called a smart phone..

pgk

[Nigel Graham 2Participant @nigelgraham2]

Thought-provoking… the concept of a "smart"-'phone being an ID card.

I must admit I'd not thought of it like that.

Put like that, it goes far further; and whilst I am against them for their aura of assumed-guilt by suspicious authorities who are meant to serve me, not vice-versa… an ID card is just that, a card.

All the more reason for my not having a "smart" phone.

And for my taking many of the precautions Silly Od Duffer states, including the different pass-word for every account. Some are purely random but when I use words I am careful to use obscure ones not relevant to the account and unlikely to yield to prediction or guesses.

I don't use Linux though, because I lack the IT knowledge to install it and transfer everything to it safely and intact.

'

Like others, I am not worried by GCHQ wondering who this 'Harrison L5' bloke is, and for which regime he is an agent; but I am concerned with Google &c pondering my use of it.

[Green TechieParticipant @greentechie]

Modern Linux versions have a much lower threshold for easy of use than older ones. Linux Mint Mate/Cinnamon look and behave in a very similar way to Windows (somewhere between 7 and 10).

The obscure/random passwords are good. It's especially important not to use the same ones for insecure sites as secure ones (like banks!). There was a site set up some years ago with a vast archive of football match results and statistics. It was free to join, but you had to create a username and password. The site was set up by scammers who were harvesting the usernames and password to test against secure sites.

One thing to bear in mind is that passwords are not (or should not) be stored as the text you type but as a "hash" of the original password. This is the reason why you are encouraged to use mixed case and numbers/punctuation. It increases the size of the hash stored, making it less likely to match a guessed password. You can have a very long password with only a few different letters and the resulting hash number can be quite small and may match other simple passwords. Add some numbers and punctuation and the complexity of the stored number can grow rapidly!

[Andrew EvansParticipant @andrewevans67134]

Can't tell if some of these posts are tongue in cheek or serious? Jokes or paranoia?

[Green TechieParticipant @greentechie]

Can't speak for anyone else, but I'm in IT. Paranoia is part of the job description. Jokes are optional, although humour is forbidden.

[Anonymous]

Posted by Green Techie on 27/03/2021 22:14:06:

Modern Linux versions have a much lower threshold for easy of use than older ones. Linux Mint Mate/Cinnamon look and behave in a very similar way to Windows (somewhere between 7 and 10).

 

Just to be clear, this is the Linux-GUI application you are talking about rather than the underlying Linux right?

Edited By Peter Greene on 28/03/2021 00:30:18

[SteviegtrParticipant @steviegtr]

Well as the thread starter i feel that we as forum members could all get rich from this. So who's going to write the script for out new sci fi film. WE ARE BEING WATCHED.

Steve.

[pgk pgkParticipant @pgkpgk17461]

1984 already had the concept of a TV with built in camera and mike. Fun sci-fi paranoia films include "Enemy of the State" and "Conspiracy Theory" and the lesser "Echelon Conspiracy"
I suspect it'd be harder to write a watchable screenplay that went into the depths of social manipulation/engineering, the buying and selling of behavioural data and the psychology of advertising. Even supermarket shelves aren't stocked randomly – colour and position on the shelves, flavour varieties of a brand to occupy more shelf width, key words on products all affect sales.
Such manipulations used to be fairly primitive from simply having coffee or fresh baked bread odours (also promoted when folk view houses for sale), the occasional feather stuck to egg displays (abandoned for hygeine reasons) and the music played.
Back in the 60's someone figured out that ladies' hormone cycle was associated with periods of 'can't be bothered' and periods of creativity. Remember the cake mixes "quick and simple – just add 2 eggs"? They could have used dried egg but this promotion added creativity to simplicity. Teams of psychologists assss Reality TV contestants to create an interactice mix of behviour types….

pgk

Edited By pgk pgk on 28/03/2021 05:59:04

[Green TechieParticipant @greentechie]

Posted by Peter Greene on 28/03/2021 00:16:20:

Posted by Green Techie on 27/03/2021 22:14:06:

Modern Linux versions have a much lower threshold for easy of use than older ones. Linux Mint Mate/Cinnamon look and behave in a very similar way to Windows (somewhere between 7 and 10).

Just to be clear, this is the Linux-GUI application you are talking about rather than the underlying Linux right?

Edited By Peter Greene on 28/03/2021 00:30:18

Interesting question. Although the underlying OS hasn't changed as obviously as the many GUI's now available what has changed, certainly since the first Linux I tried installing on a home PC (probably around 1993), is how much can be accomplished without resorting to the command line. I reckon even in the last 10 years the number of times I have had to use the command line has dropped significantly. I installed Linux on my partner's PC and my kids laptops. The laptops had were older models and I used the command line to install an updated WiFi driver, but otherwise it hasn't been required.

Many users with simple needs (web, office apps and games from the software manager) would probably never need to use the command line. Also, if problems occur there are many web pages with solutions that be can cut/pasted into a command prompt to fix common issues.

[J HancockParticipant @jhancock95746]

Not to worry too much when there is someone on the 'inside' on our side.

He/she managed to delete the entire records of every criminal in the country a few weeks ago.

Of course it was a mistake.

[Green TechieParticipant @greentechie]

Posted by J Hancock on 28/03/2021 08:54:00:

Not to worry too much when there is someone on the 'inside' on our side.

He/she managed to delete the entire records of every criminal in the country a few weeks ago.

Of course it was a mistake.

Sorry about that. I asked a mate to help me out with a parking ticket, but they accidentally pressed Ctrl+A before Ctrl+X. Looks like I'll have to tell them that someone's noticed.

[Nigel Graham 2Participant @nigelgraham2]

Samsaranda –

(two pages back)

Oh, yes I know portable 'phones transmit location signals, when switched on.

Mine spends more time Off than On – especially when I go out (if I take it with me, that is).

Pandemics permitting… It is off when I am driving (of course). in situations like entertainment venues or the rare church service – funerals actually – and… and this would baffle the youngsters, in social company!

It's occurred to me that anyone trying to track me must have been rather confused over the last few years. Almost nothing from my 'phone for ages, and that almost all at or close to home; then in an apparently random rural village 300 miles away for just 10 minutes! It wasn't that I doing little or going nowhere in the meantime – I'd simply not needed to turn the thing on.

[V8EngParticipant @v8eng]

Apparently we might be getting listened to whilst on our phones.

Who’s listening

[Nigel Graham 2Participant @nigelgraham2]

I see! Oh, yes, China seems to be among the world's "leader" if not Number One, in population-wide interception and surveillance techniques.

Did you also look down the rest of that Mirror page?

In the headlines list at the foot is one referring to a warning about hacking aimed at Whatsapp users.

(I didn't follow it, if only because I do not use Whatsapp; but we all know the more you use such sites the less privacy and security you have.)

'

Come to think of it…..

About a year after I bought this PC I'm using now, with WIN 7 Pro., I started receiving one message after another from Mickeysoft, badgering me to install WIN 10, which was free at the time. I did eventually, but was careful to use the little "Custom" rather than BIG "FULL" Install, button, study each option carefully and reject surplus rubbish like 'Cortana' *. W10 proved a disaster – gimmicky, third-rate presentation, hard to navigate, etc. all for nothing that XP and 7 didn't do for me; but worse it deleted my half-dozen or so web-site registrations. I reverted to WIN 7, as µSoft offered at the time, but it was difficult and time-consuming to repair the damage.

This thread on interception has now made me wonder if my loss of registrations was Microsoft WIN-10's built-in response to using "Custom Install" – as the installation programme made no bones about "Full" giving the company ever greater eavesdropping ability and self-assumed "rights" .

*It would seem MS is ending Cortana anyway.

[Frances IoMParticipant @francesiom58905]

you may have noticed the growing debate about vaccine passports for internal use (rather like the old Soviet one that allowed residence in specified areas only and which controlled access to health facilities, schools etc or the modern Chinese one that tracks how good a citizen you are and controls access to jobs, housing and credit status) – the vaccine passport or rather an app on ones phone will it seems control access to pubs, restaurants etc – the privacy constraints are obvious rather than a ankle tag recording ones movement you provide the tag and the government merely collects where you are or have been – policing this will be interesting!

Edited By Frances IoM on 02/04/2021 22:48:45

[V8EngParticipant @v8eng]

Posted by Nigel Graham 2 on 02/04/2021 21:52:13:

I see! Oh, yes, China seems to be among the world's "leader" if not Number One, in population-wide interception and surveillance techniques.

Did you also look down the rest of that Mirror page?

In the headlines list at the foot is one referring to a warning about hacking aimed at Whatsapp users.

(I didn't follow it, if only because I do not use Whatsapp; but we all know the more you use such sites the less privacy and security you have.)

 

That may have appeared since I posted the link.

I do not use WhatsApp (or much social media) but do know that it seems popular, apparently I am very old fashioned preferring a phone or email to communicate.

Edited By V8Eng on 02/04/2021 23:37:15

Edited By V8Eng on 02/04/2021 23:45:10

[John BaronParticipant @johnbaron31275]

Posted by V8Eng on 28/03/2021 23:14:25:

Apparently we might be getting listened to whilst on our phones.

Who’s listening

What ever makes you think that the UK, USA and other countries don't listen in ! We have GCHQ and have been spying on ourselves and others for years ! Mobile phones and computers just make it easier ! Why do you think that strong encryption is considered a weapon in the US and unlawful not to give up passwords here in the UK.

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