Am I getting an irritable old git?

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Posted by Richard S2 on 06/07/2018 12:37:38:

…Also for Hopper's benefit, or acknowledgement, I've dropped loads of caps 'n' punctuation for you specially and my error was also missed where 'Proof Reader' should read Proofreader with a capital, as it is/was a job title.

…

My apologies for making the mistake of failing to spot your mistake on proofreader, one word. You are absolutely correct: you were wrong.

However, job titles do not take a capital letter in general usage. It's a common mistake in business and government communication, usually fueled by the position-holder's overblown sense of self-importance. But it's wrong.

I don't think anyone actually employs proofreaders these days. I know newspapers and most magazines got rid of them decades ago when computers took over from hot lead. ("Nothing can possibly go wrong, right?" Bwahahaha.)

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Hopper on 08/07/2018 06:13:34:

Posted by Richard S2 on 06/07/2018 12:37:38:

…Also for Hopper's benefit, or acknowledgement, I've dropped loads of caps 'n' punctuation for you specially and my error was also missed where 'Proof Reader' should read Proofreader with a capital, as it is/was a job title.

…

However, job titles do not take a capital letter in general usage. It's a common mistake in business and government communication, usually fueled by the position-holder's overblown sense of self-importance. But it's wrong.

…

'Fuelled' misspelled, or is it!

I suggest 'job titles do not take a capital letter in general usage' depends very much on what you consider 'general usage'. Assuming my job title to be 'Silly Old Duffer', I think both these examples are correct?

• Dave, the forum's silly old duffer, wrote this sentence.
• Dave, Silly Old Duffer, wrote this.

The point about position holders often having an overblown sense of importance is well made! That's true the world over.

On a broader front, English being a polyglot language makes the role of Prescriptive Grammarian extraordinarily dangerous. So many 'rules' are undermined by exceptions it's easier to look foolish than educated. It's vital to double-check; you can't rely on what they told you at school.

That said it's a good idea to try and follow basic rules of grammar, spelling and punctuation. Not because it's 'correct', rather because it makes life easier for the reader. Keeping readers happy is always a 'good thing', and it's difficult!

Dave

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Fuelled shows up as incorrect on this forum's built-in spell checker when I type it. Hence fueled. I bow to the greater authority of the ME Forum, fount of all wisdom.

This raises another point. On the worldwide web, do we use worldwide English? And what is that?

Your second bullet point is wrong. You are using Silly Old Duffer there as a name, not as a job description. Names take caps; job titles do not. EG, Dave, a silly old duffer, did not write this. Just like we would never write: I took my car to the Mechanic to get it fixed. Dave, the Mechanic, fixed it up. He's a great Mechanic. He is the Head Mechanic at Silly Old Duffer Motors. All of those should mechanics have lower case first letters.

And, yes I agree with your take on the pitfalls of prescriptive grammar. Impossible to implement totally because the language constantly changes as it evolves. Hence the enthusiasm for lobbing rocks at those grammar police who like to point out the perceived shortcomings of other forum posters, while filling their own posts with errors. When it comes to prescriptive grammar, their schoolboy recollections are almost always woefully wrong. (Yours truly being no exception!)

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Hopper on 08/07/2018 12:36:57:

…

This raises another point. On the worldwide web, do we use worldwide English? And what is that?

Your second bullet point is wrong. …

For obvious reasons I'd vote for English English, but the league table suggests worldwide English should be otherwise:

USA – 283M
India – 125M
Pakistan – 108M
Nigeria – 79M
Philippines – 64M
UK – 60M
Germany – 45M
etc.

As there are about 1.2Bn English speakers in the world they're bound to have an influence whatever I say.

Re 'Silly Old Duffer' being a name, it was just a daft example. I didn't want to boast about being "Groom of the King's Close Stool".

Dave

[Mick B1Participant @mickb1]

Posted by Hopper on 08/07/2018 12:36:57:

…

Your second bullet point is wrong. You are using Silly Old Duffer there as a name, not as a job description. Names take caps; job titles do not. EG, Dave, a silly old duffer, did not write this. Just like we would never write: I took my car to the Mechanic to get it fixed. Dave, the Mechanic, fixed it up. He's a great Mechanic. He is the Head Mechanic at Silly Old Duffer Motors. All of those should mechanics have lower case first letters.

…

I don't think that's true – at least not in many people's view. Let's say Dave's job title is Leading Mechanic, to avoid possible disputed interpretations of 'head'. If it were just leading mechanic, the status conferred by the adjective is uncertain – it might be only the opinion of the writer, or a contingent situation applicable to the particular task, etc. If it's capitalised, it indicates that the job title has an official status, at least with his employer.

Rank in the services is typically capitalised. Some languages, especially German, routinely capitalise all nouns, and English did also up to early 19th C usage.

I don't think it's wrong to capitalise a job title, though I'd not criticise any failure to do so.

If people are using it to aggrandise their roles, maybe the words they use should be commented on more than the case.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

To minimise the bruising of egos; always try to put the job title at the start of a new sentence, or following a colon.

MichaelG.

[Cornish JackParticipant @cornishjack]

Ummm … "All of those should mechanics have lower case first letters." ????

"What the General really meant to say, was …

rgds

Bill

[Mick B1Participant @mickb1]

Posted by Cornish Jack on 08/07/2018 17:26:57:

Ummm … "All of those should mechanics have lower case first letters." ????

"What the General really meant to say, was …

rgds

Bill

Yeah, but I was trying to dispute his point, not carp at typos…

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

My wife bought me a T-shirt that reads ‘I’m not antisocial, I’m antistupid’. She thouhgt it summed me up quite well! I usually answer the question ’as asked’.

How do you spell ‘it’ gets the reply ‘I T’, for instance. Questions containing double negatives also often get the correct answer for the actual question asked. Not my problem if people don’t ask the right question!

People often get scratchy when they ask if they were right to think ‘xyz’ and they get an answer of either ‘yes’ or ‘no’.

[Mick B1Participant @mickb1]

Posted by not done it yet on 08/07/2018 19:41:31:

My wife bought me a T-shirt that reads ‘I’m not antisocial, I’m antistupid’. She thouhgt it summed me up quite well! I usually answer the question ’as asked’.

How do you spell ‘it’ gets the reply ‘I T’, for instance. Questions containing double negatives also often get the correct answer for the actual question asked. Not my problem if people don’t ask the right question!

People often get scratchy when they ask if they were right to think ‘xyz’ and they get an answer of either ‘yes’ or ‘no’.

Why've you bothered to tell us, then?

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 08/07/2018 13:58:27:

To minimise the bruising of egos; always try to put the job title at the start of a new sentence, or following a colon.

That would be the Proctologist?

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Actually I do have one pet hate, and that's when people capitalise all the 'significant nouns' (rather than proper nouns) in an article, such as parts of an assembly or products/tools used.

I can understand that this is usually done for emphasis, but it's not our house style and manually stripping them out of long articles is an RSI hazard!

Neil

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 08/07/2018 22:53:48:

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 08/07/2018 13:58:27:

To minimise the bruising of egos; always try to put the job title at the start of a new sentence, or following a colon.

That would be the Proctologist?

.

I knew we could rely on you, Neil

MichaelG.

[John HardingParticipant @johnharding75458]

At one work place a youngster declared emphatically that anyone over 50 is an Old Git (house style?)

The manager and I laughed and kept the joke to ourselves.

12 to 15 years later at another place I asked a colleauge age 40+ if he thought another emloyee was over 60.

Pause," Certainly he's crabby enough to be over sixty"

So by proxy I know what ……..

John H

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Posted by John Harding on 09/07/2018 01:02:43:

… anyone over 50 is an Old Git (house style?)

More of an honorific than a mere position title really.

[thaiguzziParticipant @thaiguzzi]

9 pages and counting….

What can i say?

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Posted by thaiguzzi on 09/07/2018 05:39:08:

9 pages and counting….

What can i say?

You could say there is no shortage of irritable old gits carrying on?

[Author]

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