Am I getting an irritable old git?

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

Some just say differenter.

Ian S C

[Mick B1Participant @mickb1]

Posted by Ian S C on 03/07/2018 12:03:13:

Some just say differenter.

Ian S C

Nevertheless: 'From', 'To' or 'Than'?

Of course it could be more than one, as in: "12mm is differenter from 1/2" than 13mm".

[Mike PooleParticipant @mikepoole82104]

I thought it was a forum etiquette to not criticise other members spelling and grammar. A general discussion on common mistakes and usage is ok I would think but direct criticism of a members jottings is bad form.

Mike

[V8EngParticipant @v8eng]

As somebody who’s english usage is not at all good (no I’m not proud of that), I find a discussion which started as a miss titled thread on this Model Engineering forum pretty pointless.

Back to the Workshops chaps you can go and make some more High Horses.

I dread to think what people stumbling upon this forum via a Search Engine might think of Model Engineers and the hobby, not exactly encouraging IMHO.

Rant over!

 

Edited By V8Eng on 03/07/2018 12:50:44

Edited By V8Eng on 03/07/2018 12:51:20

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Posted by Mike Poole on 03/07/2018 12:16:00:

I thought it was a forum etiquette to not criticise other members spelling and grammar. A general discussion on common mistakes and usage is ok I would think but direct criticism of a members jottings is bad form.

Mike

Quite right! The forum is after all a form of chatting, albeit in written format, so applying the rules of formal written English is almost certainly overkill.

An old English linguistics professor once told me that you should never criticize or correct the way someone speaks, unless you are married to them — and want a divorce.

[Mick B1Participant @mickb1]

Posted by V8Eng on 03/07/2018 12:30:16:

…

Back to the Workshops chaps you can go and make some more High Horses.

I dread to think what people stumbling upon this forum via a Search Engine might think of Model Engineers and the hobby, not exactly encouraging IMHO.

Rant over!

I think you find the same kind of thread on many a special interest forum. And written language is only one of the subjects for zealotry.

[Andrew TinsleyParticipant @andrewtinsley63637]

Jason is quite right about not criticising individual's mistakes. Because I make them myself!

I have no intention of criticising mistakes per se, it is the common usage of say my initial pet hate, ill instead of I will. This seems to have entered the English lexicon as a genuine word, NOT as a mistaken spelling. I see it all over the place, both in the US and UK.

It is travesties like this that make me irritable, not genuine mistakes by those that are for whatever reason, challenged by spelling and language.

Andrew.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Oh dear.

It seems that just because some folks are 'old' they assume everyone here is.They also assume that just because they have deluded themselves that they write perfect English, that anyone else's errors are due to laziness or ignorance.

Well I will repeat my broadside of about a year ago.

On more than one occasion, past bouts of self righteousness from our more erudite forum members have resulted in my receiving personal messages from dyslexic or simply less confident forum members telling me the attitudes expressed meant the forum was not for them. This wasn't 'grumpiness', these people had felt deep and genuine hurt. Should anyone be prevented from participating in discussion of their hobby on the grounds of a missing apostrophe or a spelling mistake?

Feel free to puncture the pomposity of those who deserve it (including me), but if anyone can't live with the fact that some forum members can't write to their high standards, perhaps they are in the wrong forum?

I hope that no-one ends up concluding that the best club for old gits is made from 2×4 with a 6" nail in the end?

Neil

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Hopper on 03/07/2018 11:45:07:

 

… should that be different from, different to, of different than?

.

I'll risk putting my neck on the line:

'differs from' and 'different to' are both good.

MichaelG.

.

Edit: I've just found this, which may be of interest

https://blog.oxforddictionaries.com/2014/01/16/different-from-than-to/

 

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 03/07/2018 14:12:57

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 03/07/2018 14:07:52:

Oh dear.

It seems that just because some folks are 'old' they assume everyone here is.They also assume that just because they have deluded themselves that they write perfect English, that anyone else's errors are due to laziness or ignorance.

Well I will repeat my broadside of about a year ago.

On more than one occasion, past bouts of self righteousness from our more erudite forum members have resulted in my receiving personal messages from dyslexic or simply less confident forum members telling me the attitudes expressed meant the forum was not for them. This wasn't 'grumpiness', these people had felt deep and genuine hurt. Should anyone be prevented from participating in discussion of their hobby on the grounds of a missing apostrophe or a spelling mistake?

Feel free to puncture the pomposity of those who deserve it (including me), but if anyone can't live with the fact that some forum members can't write to their high standards, perhaps they are in the wrong forum?

I hope that no-one ends up concluding that the best club for old gits is made from 2×4 with a 6" nail in the end?

Neil

+1 to that.

Three things about the forum appeal to me:

• the willingness of people to help
• good humour and tolerance (mostly!)
• wide ranging subject matter and levels of expertise – it's a broad church

Apologies to those whom this old git has offended in passing. Respect to you all.

Dave

[Brian GParticipant @briang]

Simple test of English grammar. If it is unambiguous and can be understood by the target audience, it is good, if not, unless the intention is to confuse or to entertain, it is bad. Rules can help with this, but at times they can also hinder.

Personally I don't consider an online forum to be a technical or academic text, and I am quite happy to use the first person, contractions and whatever tense I damn well like. If I am coding, I am much more careful as I have to treat the compiler as an idiot but with human readers I should be able to rely on their intelligence to understand me, even if I choose to maliciously split my infinitives.

Brian

[Ron LadenParticipant @ronladen17547]

Andrew, I think the fact that you started this thread asking the question "Am I getting an irritable old git" probably means that your are.

Many threads have spelling mistakes or errors or bits of "modern lingo" but I just read over them. I hardly even notice them, its the thread content I am interested in. Speaking only for myself, but if reading an abbreviation or seeing a spelling mistake that made me irritable I think I would go and hang myself. "Get a life" " Life is too short" "Chill out" all spring to mind.

 

 

Edited By Ron Laden on 03/07/2018 14:43:22

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Brian G on 03/07/2018 14:28:33:

… even if I choose to maliciously split my infinitives.

.

[V8EngParticipant @v8eng]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 03/07/2018 14:07:52:

I hope that no-one ends up concluding that the best club for old gits is made from 2×4 with a 6" nail in the end?

Neil

I have the distinct impression that some on here regard that as the best club for the young!

[DanielParticipant @daniel]

Posted by V8Eng on 03/07/2018 15:09:31:

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 03/07/2018 14:07:52:

I hope that no-one ends up concluding that the best club for old gits is made from 2×4 with a 6" nail in the end?

Neil

I have the distinct impression that some on here regard that as the best club for the young!

I'm (Im, im, i'm,etc), a mere nip of a lad at 51 1/2.

Perhaps a positive aspect to threads such as this, is that it stimulates some resetting, and reminding, of

good forum form. An example being that from Mike Poole earlier on.

Nothing wrong with a bit of banter, but remaining thoughtful to others.

[DanielParticipant @daniel]

Ok, I have to confess.

I've just asked Google what a split infinitive might be (malicious or otherwise), and had to give up.

I couldn't even understand their defintion.

Hey ho, survived this far without it

[dcostaParticipant @dcosta]

Dear All.

So far, all participants in this discussion have happily forgotten that there are participants in the forum who, because they do not speak English as their mother tongue, find it difficult to understand what has been written and is, therefore, denied the pleasure of participate in the discussion.
The case of "ill" versus "I will" is perfectly illustrative of what I mean. In cases like this, usually, because I do not understand what the author intends to say and fearing that I have lost the course of the discussion, I am no longer interested in the discussion thread.
And if we are able to improve ourselves in the various techniques we use, can we not devote a tiny part of our attention to improving our communication skills for the benefit of our fellows and our hobby buddies?
Because I want to be understood by those who have the patience to read what I wrote, I spent a few minutes working with Google translate!

Regards
Dias Costa

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Daniel on 03/07/2018 16:07:11:

I've just asked Google what a split infinitive might be (malicious or otherwise), and had to give up.

I couldn't even understand their defintion.

.

This one is pretty good, Daniel **LINK**

http://www.bristol.ac.uk/arts/exercises/grammar/grammar_tutorial/page_28.htm

It includes some reasonable examples.

MichaelG.

.

P.S. … the 'word' infintice on that page is a typo !! … but the message is a good one:

There are occasions when splitting the infinitice is far clearer than any alternative phrasing:

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 03/07/2018 17:31:39

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by Daniel on 03/07/2018 16:07:11:

Ok, I have to confess.

I've just asked Google what a split infinitive might be (malicious or otherwise), and had to give up.

I couldn't even understand their defintion.

Don't panic, it appears they don't actually exist in English, only in Latin. They are an example of pedantic over-correction by applying the grammar of one language to another (usually by people who don't actually understand Latin grammar – like me).

Neil

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by dcosta on 03/07/2018 17:02:07:

And if we are able to improve ourselves in the various techniques we use, can we not devote a tiny part of our attention to improving our communication skills for the benefit of our fellows and our hobby buddies?
Because I want to be understood by those who have the patience to read what I wrote, I spent a few minutes working with Google translate!

Indeed, but you should not have to put up with being 'dissed' when you make a mistake.

Neil

[Brian GParticipant @briang]

Something I have noticed is that English speakers appear to be far less tolerant of tiny mistakes by foreigners than others are of much greater mistakes by English speakers (if you think my English grammar is sketchy, you should see my French or German). Is it xenophobia or are we just rude to everybody?

Brian

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

Someone, better educated than I, said, "This is English with which I will not put" or something like that.

With regard to spelling:

Eye halve a spelling checker

It came with my pea sea

It marcs for my revue

Miss steaks eye kin not sea.

Eye strike a quay and type a word

And weight four it too say

Weather I am wrong oar write

It shows me strait a weigh.

As soon as a mist ache is maid

It nose bee four too long

And eye can putt the error rite

It’s rare lea ever wrong.

Eye have run this poem threw it

I am shore ewe are pleased two no

It’s letter perfect all the weigh.

My chequer tolled me sew.

And don't get started on "Eats Shoots and Leaves" (Punctuate as you see fit)

Those who never make a mistake never make anything; as the late lamented John Stevenson said,

"Not even a difference".

We all have our skills, and our weaknesses, fat fingers and all. This is what makes everyone different and either likeable or not. The world would be boring, otherwise.

We need the younger people in our hobby, or it will die with us older ones. Our priority should be to pass on our skills, and wisdom, in whatever form they may be. As John Donne, (I think) said "Gather ye rosebuds while ye may. Old time is yet a flying"

Is a Slitting Saw the correct tool to correctly split an infinitive?

Howard

[Barnaby WildeParticipant @barnabywilde70941]

Can we not just ban anyone imperfekt from the forum?

If their was an application form that required, an intenseive knowledge of real world & useful subjects like latin algebra & the thermal expansion properties of cast iron cylinders int he range of 100 – 1000 degrees.

We could also add qu's on "who did you vote for" & request references from both parents?

Maybe once a year we could open the books & all the perfect members could chuck there balls in a bag whilst standing on one leg holding a photo of the queen & reciting the lords prayer?

Just sayin' like !

[Cornish JackParticipant @cornishjack]

Split infinitive? … Star Trek "To boldly go …" Heads down for the 'trekkies'' outburst !! and if you correctly apostrophise trekkies as a possessive, it appears as an end quote. Perhaps the greengrocers have got it right?

rgds

Bill

[Enough!Participant @enough]

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 03/07/2018 17:09:29:

There are occasions when splitting the infinitice is far clearer than any alternative phrasing:

Yeah (!) …. it's a bit like ending a sentence with a preposition (which is a grammatical error up with which I will not put) – sometimes it's just better that way.

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