A Certain Age

[Nigel Graham 2Participant @nigelgraham2]

Come on, deriding others' choice of projects is hardly likely to win you a welcome, now is it?

So it's wrong to make copies of "dead technology" (whatever that means or includes)? In that case….

Is it wrong make a weight-driven long-case clock from raw materials? Would you rather just put a quartz movement and CAD-printed dial in a 3D-printed plastic box?.

Is it wrong to make a musical instrument – or if one does, is it wrong to play music written before 2000?

is it wrong to restore a 19C ornamental-turning lathe and use it to make ornaments?

You are interested in aviation – but do you decry those who make radial engines or radio-controlled model bi-planes?

The "CNC modellers seem to be having a lot more "fun". Only "seem" to be. How do know? Do you think those who use manual methods and conventional machine-tools to be just as creative, are having a lot less "fun"?

Your contrast between making things purely for one's enjoyment, and your apprentices making PPE for the hospital, is meaningless. The reasons and aims are totally different.

I appreciate you could not see anything to your taste in model-engineering, though you gave yourself only 12 weeks in a hobby far, far wider than just replicating steam-engines. Oh – and a lot of the steam-engine replicators now do use CAD and even CAM techniques for it.

However, please tell us what novel field and contributions you would have brought to the hobby.

You can't simply sneer at others for their own interests and contributions, then criticise them for their understandable reactions.

[Pete.Participant @pete-2]

Posted by Andrew Johnston on 20/02/2021 15:18:17:

Posted by Ray Lyons on 20/02/2021 14:58:40:

……..found that I had set the speed in KM/h instead of MPH. I was going to change it but on reflection decided to leave as it is since an indicated 30 is in fact about 28MPH………….

That can't be right? A speed of 30kph is equivalent to 18.6mph.

Andrew

Looks like we found out whose been holding all the traffic up 🤭

[SteviegtrParticipant @steviegtr]

Posted by Tom Sheppard on 08/03/2021 22:22:54:

Nigel, feel free to pick a fight. . I don't care because it is your time and your hobby. I explained my project but it won't fit with your agenda to consider that so you are just out to win a keyboard war. I am too grown up to indulge you further.

Oh dear what an angry person.

I also have no interest in building a steam engine. But i am in awe with some that have been built. Engineering brilliance. without a computer. My interests are mainly very fast motorcycles & cars. Of which i have both. However i love been a member of this forum, clearly you do not. Never mind. I am sure you will find another one to slag. Try a couple of mine. The Ducati owners club uk & the F-type Jaguar forum. You can swear on there so get ready for an onslaught. Kindest regards, i think .

Steve.

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Posted by Tom Sheppard on 08/03/2021 20:02:12:

As a newcomer here, the comments about the general unfriendliness of the ME community resonate, unfortunately. The fact that they will argue about fractions of nothing, often to the death over arcane examples of dead technology, (yes, steam junkies, I'm looking at you,) brings nothing to model engineering. Old men in sheds, one of which I am in danger of becoming are terribly boring when my company's apprentices grabbed the 3d printer and started mass producing PPE for the local hospital. Making copies of antiquities in small scale is old hat. Where are the new designs and projects? The Arduino and CNC modellers seem to be having a lot more fun.

Certainly the light aircraft homebuilt community, of similar demographic are more sociable and better humoured. Whether that has to do with the unforgiving nature of aviation, I don't know but after three months of looking in at it there isn't much for me in model engineering. Different strokes for different folks, I suppose.

 

My old Drummond lathe was used to mass produce aircraft parts in World War Two by some old git in his shed. Without it, you'd be speaking a foreign language right now. Does that count?

Now it's still in use making useful workshop equipment, motorbike parts and model steam engines, making it three generations of old gits in their sheds that have gotten good use out of it. Why stop now? Maybe when it wears out my grandkids can go all retro and build a working model vintage 3D printer to replace it.

Want to see unfriendly? Try the Politics section of the leading Harley forum.

Be sure to mention your steam-bent bamboo carbon fibre scooter with 25cc LPG motor and regenerative braking. I'm sure they would be fascinated.

 

Edited By Hopper on 09/03/2021 05:38:46

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Keep the personal attacks off the forum or get thrown off.

[Mike PooleParticipant @mikepoole82104]

I am beginning to think that I need to start adapting to forgetting things, my memory used to be pretty reliable but now I go down the shop to get three things and come back with two. Making a list could be the answer. My wife puts things in a safe place and forgets where the safe place is, this is of course my fault and not her memory. I sometimes wonder if she is gaslighting me about my memory or is she just not believing that she has a bit of memory trouble as well. Of course having established that my memory is not what it was this can be used to advantage on occasion. We are both closing in on our mid sixties so what is mildly annoying and not a major problem at the moment will probably not improve but acknowledging the problem can help to adapt to it. My wife’s work are implementing a security system to access their computer systems than requires a smartphone, something she has resisted getting until now, I can see this is going be fun.

Mike

Edited By Mike Poole on 09/03/2021 08:45:22

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Steviegtr on 08/03/2021 22:42:14:

Posted by Tom Sheppard on 08/03/2021 22:22:54:

…

…

I also have no interest in building a steam engine. But i am in awe with some that have been built. Engineering brilliance. without a computer. …

Steve.

+1, except I allow computers as well! Fortunately, computers are entirely voluntary, so me blathering on about them about can be safely ignored…

Dave

[Anonymous]

Posted by Tom Sheppard on 08/03/2021 21:47:59:

Steam bent bamboo…………….

That's surprising, steam is sooooo 19th century.

Andrew

[Andrew TinsleyParticipant @andrewtinsley63637]

Come Andrew,

You do Tom Sheppard an injustice, 19th century, bamboo usage? It goes back millennia in construction. Predates steam engines by a few thousand years.

Andrew.

Edited By Andrew Tinsley on 09/03/2021 10:27:22

Edited By Andrew Tinsley on 09/03/2021 10:28:08

[Nick WheelerParticipant @nickwheeler]

Going back to Tom's original complaint: many of the posters here are grumpy, opinionated, argumentative and pedantic, and the phrase 'model engineering' is a terrible description. But unfriendly is a big stretch.

[Dave HalfordParticipant @davehalford22513]

Posted by Tom Sheppard on 08/03/2021 21:47:59:

Steam bent bamboo wrapped in carbon fibre tube electric scooter with regenerative braking and 25cc LPG four stroke range extending high voltage alternator feeding a switched mode charger supplying 120Volts at 3 Amps.

How did you register it with the DVLA?

[Grindstone CowboyParticipant @grindstonecowboy]

Posted by Nicholas Wheeler 1 on 09/03/2021 10:40:29:

Going back to Tom's original complaint: many of the posters here are grumpy, opinionated, argumentative and pedantic, and the phrase 'model engineering' is a terrible description. But unfriendly is a big stretch.

Well let me tell you, whether you want to hear it or not (and I'm right about this), you should have used double quotes, not single.

Rob

P.S. I don't know anything about model engineering, so you're safe on that one

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Posted by Grindstone Cowboy on 09/03/2021 10:53:04:

Posted by Nicholas Wheeler 1 on 09/03/2021 10:40:29:

Going back to Tom's original complaint: many of the posters here are grumpy, opinionated, argumentative and pedantic, and the phrase 'model engineering' is a terrible description. But unfriendly is a big stretch.

Well let me tell you, whether you want to hear it or not (and I'm right about this), you should have used double quotes, not single.

Rob

P.S. I don't know anything about model engineering, so you're safe on that one

Ah well, it depends on where you are. The Australian book publishing industry now uses single quotation marks as standard. So they could be right. ( I however agree with you and believe the publishing industry does not know its own business.)

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Posted by Nicholas Wheeler 1 on 09/03/2021 10:40:29:

Going back to Tom's original complaint: many of the posters here are grumpy, opinionated, argumentative and pedantic, and the phrase 'model engineering' is a terrible description. But unfriendly is a big stretch.

Speak for yourself. I'm not argumentative.

[Nigel Graham 2Participant @nigelgraham2]

Well, as a bus-pass age bloke in a shed, I use computers now, having been introduced to them at work at the ending of MS DOS and the start of WIN 3. When I retired the organisation was on WIN 7 Pro.

I've even dived into the bewildering world of CAD, using that and spread-sheets to help me design my replica antique steam-wagon; ;though I am not good at learning complicated software.

'

The branch, or more accurately brother, of model-engineering that has me in awe is clock-making. As well as the clocks being both beautiful and functional, the skill necessary is far beyond my metal-working, where a Thou' is more often of the Hand not Inch; and an 8BA tap is too small for its own safety.

Ornamental Turning too, not least because it is good to see those lovely old machine-tools still being used as intended. I was a bit surprised though when one demonstrator admitted to me that often the deigning and planning are the interesting phases, but the machining can be very repetitive. You Ornamental Turners are in royal company too – King George III, who was physically ill but not "mad" in a psychiatric sense, became highly proficient at the craft.

'

I use CAD – almost always only orthographic for its greater practical value. TurboCAD in fact – it gives you the direct orthographic/isometric choice.

When I bought it from Paul (TheCAD) Tracey's stand at one of the model-engineering shows, it was the only engineering-biased and comprehensive CAD package readily available and affordable in a one-off purchase to amateurs.

Looking at his web-site the other day, it seems that the present equivalent of my TC Deluxe 19 also follows those sales criteria; and I must admit I'm surprised most of the CAD-comparing threads on this forum don't mention it.

TurboCAD was advertised in ME and MEW at the time, but it was my seeing the SolidWorks they used at work that showed me what CAD can do, although I did not use it there myself. My contact with the drawing office was emptying the shredders!

I was introduced to computers c.1989 when I changed employment, in MS-DOS / WIN 3 days; so probably pre-CAD. In the previous employment, a "layer" was a pencil drawing under the one being drawn on tracing-paper, and the Head Designer's desk was identifiable as the parallel-motion board set horizontally and buried in paperwork.

'

As for knowing that wherever you put something is never where you find it eventually find it, or forgetting the tapping-drill numbers for Lowenhertz Threads, it seems all these lock-downs have affected many people's mental sharpness and memory, because we have not been having the range and quality of the social and other activities keeping us alert.

Even so, I reckon homes have black holes – tiny ones, but bigger than those the LHC might make and which terrify politicians. They must do. Invisible by definition, they suck in objects, then, too small to sustain themselves, dissolve into the aether and drop the items randomly. How else to explain my once being unable to find my calculator, then my slide-rule, in desperation using logs (for an awkward model-engineering design "sum" ) – then finding the lost sum-box three weeks after buying its replacement. I knew I could not have put it in the drawer in which I was looking for something else.

'

Now… what was I going to do today… Oh yes. I remember.

Try to repair a cock-up on my steam-wagon's chimney saddle. I don't fancy having to make a new one (fabricated, not cast). I'd tried welding over a weld-slag hole, and made the hole even bigger.

[Nick WheelerParticipant @nickwheeler]

Posted by Grindstone Cowboy on 09/03/2021 10:53:04:

Posted by Nicholas Wheeler 1 on 09/03/2021 10:40:29:

Going back to Tom's original complaint: many of the posters here are grumpy, opinionated, argumentative and pedantic, and the phrase 'model engineering' is a terrible description. But unfriendly is a big stretch.

Well let me tell you, whether you want to hear it or not (and I'm right about this), you should have used double quotes, not single.

That's a style judgment, not a rule. And many grammar 'rules' are nonsense invented by people trying look clever. I could have used italics, or emboldened the text. Like all of these judgements, the thing to do is pick one, and always use it. I went with single quotation marks because each is one keypress, not two.

[Andrew TinsleyParticipant @andrewtinsley63637]

Yes, there are a minority of people here who are grumpy, pedantic and self opinionated plus the fellow who always gives most unhelpful answers and is usually wrong.

Apart from this odd half dozen members, the rest of the folk here are always most helpful and well mannered, until some one turns up and starts slagging off the membership. Then unsurprisingly the majority of people feel very aggrieved.

Andrew.

[Nick WheelerParticipant @nickwheeler]

Just because someone is grumpy, pedantic, opinionated and argumentative doesn't make them wrong. Just hard to deal with.

[Grindstone CowboyParticipant @grindstonecowboy]

Nicholas – I was only joking, I always find your answers helpful and well-written.

Although I think I may have identified myself as that one fellow that Andrew mentions.

Rob

[Tim HammondParticipant @timhammond72264]

Posted by Nicholas Wheeler 1 on 09/03/2021 14:12:18:

Just because someone is grumpy, pedantic, opinionated and argumentative doesn't make them wrong. Just hard to deal with.

Funny you should say that – my wife says exactly the same thing about me!

[Nick WheelerParticipant @nickwheeler]

Posted by Tim Hammond on 09/03/2021 14:33:19:

Posted by Nicholas Wheeler 1 on 09/03/2021 14:12:18:

Just because someone is grumpy, pedantic, opinionated and argumentative doesn't make them wrong. Just hard to deal with.

Funny you should say that – my wife says exactly the same thing about me!

Yes, me too. Although I don't have a wife to do it.

[OldironParticipant @oldiron]

Posted by Nigel Graham 2 on 09/03/2021 11:11:35:

Well, as a bus-pass age bloke in a shed, I use computers now, having been introduced to them at work at the ending of MS DOS and the start of WIN 3. When I retired the organisation was on WIN 7 Pro.

I can remember way back using Gem desktop UI on I think an Amstrad IBM compatible machine. If I had a really good search through my old floppy's I might still have a copy. Or maybe I copied it to a cd when I was compacting my software library.

regards

[Andrew TinsleyParticipant @andrewtinsley63637]

Hi Grindstone Cowboy! Whatever makes you think I had you in my sights? I find your replies to be interesting and very practical. Compared to the guy I am thinking about, you are an absolute angel! I bet no one has called you an angel for a very long time. I don't think anyone has called me that either!

Regards,

Andrew.

[Anonymous]

Posted by Andrew Tinsley on 09/03/2021 13:09:59:

………..pedantic and self opinionated……………

Andrew

[Grindstone CowboyParticipant @grindstonecowboy]

<— Andrew, there you go! (I didn't really think you meant me)

Not for a very long time, and hopefully not as a permanent lifestyle change for a long time to come. Although I do get called a lot of other things…

I am, however, starting to consider more carefully how much use I'll get out of tools and things that I'm thinking of buying now, a bit like the doctor's advice not to buy any green bananas. Is it worthwhile building that dream workshop for maybe ten or fifteen year's use and other morbid questions…

Yes, I think I've definitely reached that certain age.

All the best to everyone,

Rob

[Author]

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