Here’s another nice mess I’ve gotten myself into…

Here’s another nice mess I’ve gotten myself into…

Home Forums Beginners questions Here’s another nice mess I’ve gotten myself into…

Viewing 25 posts - 1 through 25 (of 30 total)
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  • #341837
    Robin Graham
    Participant
      @robingraham42208

      I'm pretty bad at planning machining sequences – I have a lamentable tendency to just get stuck in and think 'I'll cross that bridge when I come to it'. It rarely works out well. Latest is this:

      fork.jpg

       

      (no idea why pic is rotated 90 degrees?). I cut the pocket (2.5mm deep) at the crotch of the fork with a 12mm endmill (biggest I've got) whilst the work was still on the mill, but I need to enlarge it to 20mm -ish. I've tried mounting the part in the 4-jaw on the lathe to bore, but my attempts to get it square and centered have been defeated by entropy. Any thoughts on how to proceed – or how I could have avoided getting myself into this nice mess by more forethought?

      Rob.

      Edited By Neil Wyatt on 17/02/2018 11:28:28

      #9093
      Robin Graham
      Participant
        @robingraham42208
        #341840
        Andy Carruthers
        Participant
          @andycarruthers33275

          My $0.02 worth – bear in mind I have limited experience in these matters

          Would it make sense to start with the 20mm hole and then finish the rest of the piece using the hole circumference for reference?

          I'll get my coat…

          #341842
          pgk pgk
          Participant
            @pgkpgk17461

            Back in the mill, centre on the hole and if you have then a boring head or knock up a fly cutter and bore with that..

            #341845
            vintagengineer
            Participant
              @vintagengineer

              I would make a stepped mandrel to fit the the hole and the recess. Clamp the mandrel in the tailstock chuck and use this to hold your inplace whilst you set the four jaws to the job. Hope this makes sense.

              #341853
              Mike Poole
              Participant
                @mikepoole82104

                If you have a small vice that could be mounted on a faceplate it may be easier than setting up in a 4 jaw. A vee block on a faceplate may be another possibility.

                Mike

                #341860
                Hopper
                Participant
                  @hopper

                  Either clamp it to the lathe faceplate and bore it, or make a "sub-faceplate" out of a piece of flat bar or plate. I use 10mm thick aluminium alloy flat bar about 50mm wide and 150mm long for this. Then drill and tap a couple of pairs of 6mm holes in the plate, strategically located so that a pair of clamping bars, — cut from 20mm x 5mm or so steel flat bar with two holes drilled to match the tapped holes in the base plate — can be held held down with 6mm screws.

                  It looks like you will need to put a bit of packing under your job so it sits on the square face. I use makeshift "parallels" cut from a length of 6mm square keysteel or bar for this.

                  Attach the job to the plate, then bolt or clamp the plate to the faceplate. I have a hole drilled each end of the plate so a bolt goes straight through and thtrough the faceplate. Then I use a clamp on the other end to allow movement to adjust it to get the job centred.

                  A bit of mucking about, but I use that sub-faceplate over and over again for drilling and boring small parts in teh lathe where I want more accuracy than my cheap Chinese drill press will give me (I found its table is half a millimetre out of square with the spindle!) so its well worth the effort to make up. You could use a piece of steel flat bar if no ally in the scrap box.

                  #341861
                  Hopper
                  Participant
                    @hopper

                    A pitcher's worth a thousand words. Here's what I was rabitting on about:

                    dscn2391.jpg

                    Counter-boring a recess in the middle of the brass sector arm for the Fabricated Versatile Dividing Head.

                    In you case, you would not use the bolt through the middle but a second clamping strap and bolts over the two unused screw holes to the left of centre. Again, its worth making this simple device. It is just the handiest gizmo and gets used a lot. My son and I recently used it to drill and ream the holes in the connecting rod small end and big end bearings for a Potty Horizontal Mill  engine. Much tidier than using the drill press.

                    Edited By Hopper on 17/02/2018 03:58:26

                    #341870
                    JasonB
                    Moderator
                      @jasonb

                      ER collet block to hold by the round spigot and then fix that to a face plate and bore out to 20mm if you only have the tooling to cut on the lathe. No ER block then just bore a hole in a bit of square stock and drill & tap a cross hole for a grub screw to lock the part in position.

                      If on the mill hold by spigot and use a boring head or home made cutter.

                      Edited By JasonB on 17/02/2018 07:41:57

                      #341879
                      Chris Evans 6
                      Participant
                        @chrisevans6

                        Jason you read my thoughts re square block. I often make up little jig blocks to hold awkward shapes.

                        #341941
                        Howard Lewis
                        Participant
                          @howardlewis46836

                          if you want it absolutely central in the lathe, why not take a piece of bar, mount it in the 3 jaw, and bore it out to be a really tight fit on the diameter of the stem. Mark the position of No 1 jaw, remove and slit along the axis, with a hacksaw.

                          Deburr, replace in the 3 jaw with the mark aligned on No 1 jaw.

                          Fit stem into this newly made collet, clamp up hard.

                          Bore out to 20mm.

                          HTH

                          Howard

                          #341990
                          Robin Graham
                          Participant
                            @robingraham42208

                            Thanks to all who have replied – and to Neil for silently reorientating my photo!

                            It looks like either a faceplate job or boring on the mill. I have a faceplate which came with the lathe, but have never actually had need to use it. LIkewise I I have a boring head – bought to turn long tapers on a lathe with a fixed tailstock – but have never used it on the mill. So either way there's a learning curve…

                            I had thought about boring on the mill, which would be easier from a workholding/centering POV as it's all set up, but I can't see how I would get a decent finish on the bottom of the 'pocket'. When i do this sort of thing on the lathe I cut axially to near diameter and a tad under depth then take a radial swipe across the bottom and up the side to finish. I can't see how I can do anything similar with a boring head in the mill .Is there a technique for this?

                            Thanks again to all for suggestions – much appreciated.

                            Rob.

                            #341999
                            Ian P
                            Participant
                              @ianp

                              As you say its would be difficult to get a flat bottom using a boring head in the mill, unless it was the boring and facing type, and it would be an OTT method. For speediness and expediency my money would be on using a four jaw in the lathe.

                              Once you can hold it (4 jaw or faceplate) then holding on a rotary table in the mill is another possibility. By using an end mill less than half the recess diameter, getting a flat bottom is easy. I have a simple manually rotated table that I use frequently to create large counterbores. Sitting an already drilled hole on a spigot easily ensures the counterbore is concentric. The same technique works without a rotary table, just by hand rotating the part as long as its size and proportions make it amenable to hand rotation.

                              Ian P

                              #342337
                              Robin Graham
                              Participant
                                @robingraham42208

                                OK, looks like a faceplate job. So I'm going to have to get to grips the thing – a PITA or a learning opportunity! I think the latter – it's potentially a very versatile thing. I'm a slow learner.

                                I'm going for Hopper's gizmo and Jason''s suggestion of a bored block mounted on that – I have only an ER25 collet block (the spigot is 19.050(+/-0.002)mm diameter wink).

                                My faceplate (250mm) isn't too friendly because the slots are short and close to the periphery – so some sort of adaptor has anyway to be made to work on smaller work close to the axis.

                                Rob.

                                 

                                faceplate[1].jpg

                                Edited By Robin Graham on 20/02/2018 00:25:59

                                #342364
                                Emgee
                                Participant
                                  @emgee

                                  Hi Robin, you may find it useful to drill and tap some holes in the faceplate to enable parts to be fixed for turning, especially useful for holding smaller parts for turning.

                                  Emgee

                                  #342395
                                  Rick Kirkland 1
                                  Participant
                                    @rickkirkland1

                                    Take up Baking ? Or gardening, , perchance?

                                    #342436
                                    Anonymous
                                      Posted by Rick Kirkland 1 on 20/02/2018 12:03:53:

                                      Take up Baking ? Or gardening, , perchance?

                                      It's a classic, another "useful" and "informative" post from one of our leading armchair users. thumbs up

                                      Andrew

                                      #342450
                                      Jeff Dayman
                                      Participant
                                        @jeffdayman43397

                                        Hi Robin, your faceplate will work fine if you use Hopper's gizmo and follow his instruction words reprinted below:

                                        "Attach the job to the plate, then bolt or clamp the plate to the faceplate. I have a hole drilled each end of the plate so a bolt goes straight through and thtrough the faceplate. Then I use a clamp on the other end to allow movement to adjust it to get the job centred."

                                        Drill a couple of holes in outer ends of your plate to suit your faceplate's outboard slots, use some through-bolts and rear side clamps (just some steel bar with a plain or tapped hole in centre) behind your plate, and you are in business. JD

                                        #342524
                                        Robin Graham
                                        Participant
                                          @robingraham42208
                                          Posted by Rick Kirkland 1 on 20/02/2018 12:03:53:

                                          Take up Baking ? Or gardening, , perchance?

                                          Not quite sure what I did to deserve that!

                                          Anyhow, in an interval between my baking activities (making a properly formed 70% hydration baguette is at least as challenging as turning metal to size actually – bakery is an art not to be sneezed at!) I made the Hopper gizmo and a block to hold the work as per Jason's suggestion.

                                          Andy Carruthers – I think you are right in saying that I'd have been better off starting with the 20mm pocket and referencing everything off that. It's sort of counter-intuitive, for me at least – I see the the raw bar of metal, think I'll do the 'major features', in this case milling the fork, then attend to details… I need to take a different view.

                                          Thanks again for helpful responses.

                                          Robin.

                                          #342525
                                          Michael Gilligan
                                          Participant
                                            @michaelgilligan61133
                                            Posted by Robin Graham on 20/02/2018 23:25:37:

                                            Posted by Rick Kirkland 1 on 20/02/2018 12:03:53:

                                            Take up Baking ? Or gardening, , perchance?

                                            Not quite sure what I did to deserve that!

                                            .

                                            Nothing, Robin

                                            MichaelG.

                                            #342527
                                            Robin Graham
                                            Participant
                                              @robingraham42208
                                              Posted by Michael Gilligan on 20/02/2018 23:31:20:

                                              Posted by Robin Graham on 20/02/2018 23:25:37:

                                              Posted by Rick Kirkland 1 on 20/02/2018 12:03:53:

                                              Take up Baking ? Or gardening, , perchance?

                                              Not quite sure what I did to deserve that!

                                              .

                                              Nothing, Robin

                                              MichaelG.

                                              Thanks Michael.

                                              #342530
                                              Hopper
                                              Participant
                                                @hopper

                                                Posted by Robin Graham on 20/02/2018 23:25:37:…

                                                …I made the Hopper gizmo and a block to hold the work as per Jason's suggestion.

                                                LOL, "the Hopper gizmo". my fifteen minutes of fame at last.
                                                Glad it worked for you.

                                                #342531
                                                Jeff Dayman
                                                Participant
                                                  @jeffdayman43397

                                                  Good to hear it Robin.

                                                  Hopper – enjoy the fame and fortune for the full 15 minutes!

                                                  #342533
                                                  Hopper
                                                  Participant
                                                    @hopper
                                                    Posted by Jeff Dayman on 21/02/2018 03:16:00:

                                                    Good to hear it Robin.

                                                    Hopper – enjoy the fame and fortune for the full 15 minutes!

                                                    Ah, one minute to go and loving every second of it.

                                                    Edit, oh no, it's actually over. Well it was good while it lasted and the afterglow lives on.

                                                    Edited By Hopper on 21/02/2018 03:34:39

                                                    #342545
                                                    Neil Wyatt
                                                    Moderator
                                                      @neilwyatt

                                                      Hopper!

                                                      We're not worthy, were not… hang on, his 15 minutes has run out!

                                                      Neil

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