MD65 leadscrew cross-slide stuck in nut

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MD65 leadscrew cross-slide stuck in nut

Home Forums Manual machine tools MD65 leadscrew cross-slide stuck in nut

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  • #810467
    leov
    Participant
      @leov

      I need some help with disassembly of the leadscrew. It was completely stuck, did not rotate in the nut anymore. I guess there must be some debris between spindle and nut. So I removed everything and now I have end up with spindle and nut that I can’t separate from each other. See picture.

      • Spindle doesn’t rotate in the nut
      • I removed the four threaded studs (2 of them were in the nut)
      • can’t move the nut out the housing. Tried light tapping with a brass block but does’nt move.I’m reluctant to use more force

      How to get this out of the base? Any hints?

      thx

      Leo

      leadscrew

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      #810493
      Martin Kyte
      Participant
        @martinkyte99762

        You say you removed the grubscrews holding the housing and the nut. Just make sure there are not 2 screws down the hole. Often 2 are fitted. The first sets everything up and the second locks the assembly.

         

        #810515
        leov
        Participant
          @leov

          I guess you are right, there’s definitely something deep down in the middle one. It looks like a brass screw, but no slot. Feels flat so what was there might have been damaged on the top by the locking screw. Think I have to drill out carefully. Thanks Martin

          #810521
          Martin Kyte
          Participant
            @martinkyte99762

            Be a bit careful before you go drilling anything. Measure down the hole and determine if what you are seeing is the lead screw nut. It should be Bronze so can be confused with Brass. If you can see the Bronze outer sleeve from the side you should be able to determine the depth to the nut. Don’t drill it.

            Better for now to lay the nut assembly on its side and get some oil or anti seize fluid down the tapped holes.

            #810525
            Bazyle
            Participant
              @bazyle

              The two middle screws hold the nut, the two outer screws just hold the protective leadscrew covers.
              You can measure the distance from the outer edge to the leadscrew down the outer hole, and to the ‘obstruction’ down the middle screw hole. Compare that to the right hand edge and the hole for the leadscrew to confirm that what you are seeing is the body of the nut and not some additional screw/pad.
              The original design just has a round ‘nut’ pushed down and along the leadscrew and two bolts driven in to lock it. There might be small dimples in the nut for the bolts to seat in. If something locked up it is likely the nut was moved round or along a bit creating big burrs that are now graunched into the saddle body. I don’t think drilling down the bolt hole will help and may raise further burrs.

              It is going to be brutal but I think you need to put the leadscrew protective cover (or some other tube if you have it) over the leadscrew down to the nut so that you can hit it and hence the nut to push it out of the hole rather than applying force to the nut via the leadscrew.

              #810528
              Diogenes
              Participant
                @diogenes

                The two outer screws secure the swarf-guard tubes, and the inner pair locate in shallow drillings in the tubular nut to prevent both axial and radial movement (- probably this you can see? – the OEM screws may have been intended to be dog-point)…

                … it’s not rare to find that they’ve have been overtightened and distorted the tubular nut causing it to both bind in it’s housing and force parts of the inner wall into the leadscrew threads with enough force to ‘lock’ it.. ..joy!

                It is a pain – no point in drilling because you will only make a hole in the side of the leadscrew and whilst the result won’t be ‘dreadful’, it won’t get you any further forward either.

                Because the nut is so far inside and protected by guards, it is rarely affected by debris or corrosion.

                The leadscrew has a standard (but fine pitch) Metric thread, it’s 16mm x ?1 (I think – any better offers? – I’ll check in any case.

                A good method of extraction might be to use a threaded plate or large nut and washers to try and ‘pull’ the screw and nut out of the carriage..

                Do you have another lathe / other facilities?

                I’m fairly sure I have the correct tap to make a matching thread somewhere…

                 

                #810557
                leov
                Participant
                  @leov

                  Thanks. I measured and it was the nut. I managed to tap it out, however it is completely stuck at the leadscrew, can’t rotate. I sprayed WD40, hopefully it gets free.

                   

                  #810559
                  old mart
                  Participant
                    @oldmart

                    A little heat on the nut might help, a small flamed gas torch would be incapable of overheating the leadscrew.

                    #810565
                    Martin Kyte
                    Participant
                      @martinkyte99762

                      Well down. Don’t be in too much of a hurry. Let the releasing fluid do its work and keep fiddling with it to try and get a little movement. I would hold the lead screw vertically with one hand and tap the nut with a nylon hammer whilst successively rotating the lead screw so you give it a lot of gentle taps all the way round. Then see if you can get a bit of movement. If you can don’t just try and wind the nut straight off work it backwards and forward.

                      #810782
                      old mart
                      Participant
                        @oldmart

                        As M K mentions, being patient and worrying at the nut should have a better result than brute force. And you should be able to reuse the nut after getting it moving.

                        #810887
                        Howard Lewis
                        Participant
                          @howardlewis46836

                          Pure guess work but if the Leadscrew is 16 mm diameter, it might be 1 or 1.5 mm pitch

                          If you lay the Leadscrew in the bench, hitting it with mallet , whilst rotating the assembly might free things off to give a little movement. The blows will produce a temporary distortion which might free things off a little. But avoid excessive force for the blows, or attempts at rotation, for fear of doing more damage.

                          It may be that the nut will then move more easily on one direction than the other, away from what is causing the problem, (swarf?)

                          Once you have it apart the cause of the problem should be visible, and hopefully repairable.

                          Howard

                          #810899
                          Martin Kyte
                          Participant
                            @martinkyte99762

                            The manual says the lead screw hand wheel is graduated in 0.025mm increments so pitch is more likely 2.5mm.

                            #810915
                            Nicholas Farr
                            Participant
                              @nicholasfarr14254

                              Hi, my MD65 leadscrew is 1mm pitch, the hand wheel does have 0.025mm increments, but there are ten sections on the handwheel with four divisions in each, so, 4 x 0.025 = 0.1 x 10 = 1mm.

                              Personally, I would lay the nut on a piece of stout timber and gently tap it with a nylon mallet a few times, while rotating it, and I would use proper penetrating oil to help free it off, and turn it the opposite way to the way it first jammed up.

                              Regards Nick.

                              #810923
                              roy entwistle
                              Participant
                                @royentwistle24699

                                Forget WD 40  get some Plugas on it.

                                Roy

                                #810948
                                parovoz
                                Participant
                                  @parovoz

                                  Agree with the Plus-Gas, better releaser than WD 40.

                                  I couldn’t see mention of the material of the nut? If it’s bronze, probably going to be OK. But if it’s a soft material, and aluminium / mazak based material there is a risk that a piece on ingested swarf has caused a ‘pick up’, basically raised a ball of the softer material and jammed it up solid. Turning it further just increases the grab and it’s a bad doo.

                                  If it’s bronze based. Heat is the answer. Lots of it and FAST. I.e. heat the nut fast so that the lead screw stays as cold as possible  ( even pre cool the lead screw with cold water / ice ), this gives the greatest degree of differential expansion and has the best loosening effect. Then gip the nut with a Stilson or mole and twist… Do the whole job as fast as possible to minimise heat transfer to the lead screw. You can also put tube over the exposed parts of the led screw to act as a heat shield. Basically you want the nut as hot as possible and the screw as cold as possible….

                                  Also when holding the leadscrew in the vice and grabbing the nut with aggressive jawed wrenches, protect the parts with some thinner brass sheet bent over the part so that it eliminates damage an you don’t have to faff manually holding the protectors in place whilst it’s scalding hot. Make a thin brass ‘U’ shape, cook the nut, drop the protector on to it, then grab and twist…..

                                  If it’s alloy based. I would try to find a spare / replacement nut. Then try the heat, and if not, cut the nut off, dress the leadscrew if there is any damage and fit the new nut.

                                  A badly picked up nut on a thread can be terminal….. But anything can be fixed, just a bit more work required….

                                  All the best and hopefully the Plus-Gas and Heat will do the trick.

                                   

                                  #811013
                                  old mart
                                  Participant
                                    @oldmart

                                    From looking at the photo and knowing that the leadscrew is 16mm diameter, I would take a guess at 1-1.5 mm thread pitch. Easy for LEOV to measure. A replacement nut should be relatively easy to get hold of if the old one is too damaged. The thread may be a common 60 degree angle or it might be trapezoidal with a 30 degree angle. I have TR 2.5 threading inserts, but they were used in bigger nuts for a leadscrew of about 23mm diameter.

                                    On ebay, a new Hobbymat MD65 leadscrew nut in bronze is £ 46.

                                    #811021
                                    Diogenes
                                    Participant
                                      @diogenes

                                      yes, agree it’s 16×1, the form is standard metric 60 pointy.

                                      The nut is a bronze cylinder and Heritage Lathes will sell you a brand spanker for £45 I think.

                                       

                                      #811125
                                      leov
                                      Participant
                                        @leov

                                        Thanks for all help. I have access to a professional toolshop ‘using’ my brother 🙂 Will make a new spindle nut anytime soon.

                                        The nut is M18 x 1 partslist 3800-0402 and measured.

                                         

                                        Leo

                                        #811244
                                        Diogenes
                                        Participant
                                          @diogenes

                                          Sincere apologies, you are quite correct and I made an incorrect assertion twice – hangs head in shame..

                                          #811356
                                          old mart
                                          Participant
                                            @oldmart

                                            I also thought the thread was 16mm from reading the posts, 18mm is a substancial size for a small lathe, easy to singlepoint an internal thread of 1mm pitch in that diameter. Don’t forget to take the leadscrew to use as a gauge.

                                            If the leadscrew thread shows any damage, you could run an insert along it and make a 17.8mm, or any size that cleans up, then the nut can be made to suit that, I have done exactly that when restoring a mill leadscrew of 3/4 ACME to make all the thread equal size for antibacklash nuts to travel the whole length.

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