Lathe spindle bearings

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Lathe spindle bearings

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  • #801495
    Sonic Escape
    Participant
      @sonicescape38234

      I removed the two spindle bearings from an Emcomat 7 lathe. They are tapered roller bearings. I want to buy new ones. The model is 4T 32006x and 4T 32007x. Tapered roller bearings have some kind of tolerance classes like C2, CN, C3 for the normal bearings? How can I select a good quality ones? I saw the price varies quite a lot for the same type from different manufacturer.

       

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      #801503
      JasonB
      Moderator
        @jasonb

        The NTN ones are readily available at least here in the UK and are a good japanese brand so why not stay with the same brand

        #801507
        Sonic Escape
        Participant
          @sonicescape38234

          I know that NTN are ok. But I remember that in the past I read in some datasheet that a type of bearing was made specifically for lathe spindles. But these two models I got seems to be some general purpose types. In NTN specs sheet. So are there different quality levels for the same bearing type from the same manufacturer?

          #801511
          Roderick Jenkins
          Participant
            @roderickjenkins93242

            As I understand it sometimes matched pairs of bearings are (were?) used for high precision spindles.  Possibly, these days, quality bearings are so well made that they all match without needing selection.

            Rod

            #801514
            JasonB
            Moderator
              @jasonb

              If you join the Emco usergroup that I suggested in the other thread you will be able to find the parts list, it gives the correct bearing suffix as XC = extra clearance and P6 = better than normal tolerance.

              Also watch out as they are different sizes 32006 & 32007

              #801516
              Bazyle
              Participant
                @bazyle

                When bearings are made they all come off one production line but are tested and graded. Then they are sold for different purposes, if there is a demand for the best they cost more. Standard supply and demand. The lathe manufacturer will decide what quality meets their product price point.
                The cheap versions are probably in some small trailer, better ones in some production machinery and the fairly good ones in your lathe.

                Do you need new ones? It would take decades of normal use to wear them out unless the lubrication was contaminated.

                #801520
                Huub
                Participant
                  @huub

                  As I understand it sometimes matched pairs of bearings are (were?) used for high precision spindles.

                  These are “only” used when the 2 bearings are placed without spacing between them in a back to back or front to front position. You find them in high (24000)  RPM milling spindles.

                  High quality bearings only make sense if your lathe/mill is in top condition and all parts are machined to match these conditions. If you need very tight tolerances and have the tools and skills to realize this, it could make sense.
                  I replaced the bearings of my lathes and mill with standard SKF (european brand) bearings and they still perform as when the machines where new.

                  #801524
                  Sonic Escape
                  Participant
                    @sonicescape38234
                    On JasonB Said:

                    If you join the Emco usergroup that I suggested in the other thread you will be able to find the parts list, it gives the correct bearing suffix as XC = extra clearance and P6 = better than normal tolerance.

                    Also watch out as they are different sizes 32006 & 32007

                    I had a look on that usergroup but group.io is painful to use with that stupid calendar view and poor search function. Anyway, the type of bearing is indicated also in the manual: ZLG 32006 XC/P6 and 32007 XC/P6. That is an SNR brand. I found also an 32007-X-P5-FAG that should be even better than P6.

                     

                    On Bazyle Said:

                    Do you need new ones? It would take decades of normal use to wear them out unless the lubrication was contaminated.

                    The thing is that I jumped into disassembling the late before doing more tests. So I don’t know if the spindle bearings are bad. There was a significant runout on the inner morse taper but maybe that could be fixed by more preload. It didn’t crossed my mind back then. I noticed instead that the bearings of the motor had a lot of wear. So maybe the spindle ones must have some wear also.

                    Since everything is disassembled I think it make sense to replace them anyway. Only P5 class are really expensive but P6 cost is decent. I don’t want to assemble everything only to discover that indeed bearings are not ok. Also it feels good to know that there are new parts inside.

                    #801553
                    JasonB
                    Moderator
                      @jasonb

                      Go to the “files” section of the group as that is where all the copied documents etc are.

                      #801588
                      John Haine
                      Participant
                        @johnhaine32865

                        Actually I don’t think that group has a files section – it’s an extra paid-for feature.  Files can be posted as attachments to messages but then of course harder to find.

                        What’s difficult about groups.io?  I regularly use 4 of them without any problems.  What do you mean by “calendar” view?  That again is an optional feature that isn’t available in the Emco group I think.  You can choose whether to present messages in a topic in “first first” or “last first” order using a little arrow button at the top right of the list.

                        #801598
                        gerry madden
                        Participant
                          @gerrymadden53711

                          If you buy new, get the P6 class. Statistically, the one or two you buy are very likely to meet and exceed all the tolerance requirements of P5 class. The reason for this is that ISO tolerance classes were set out a long time ago when quality and consistency in bearing manufacture wasn’t as good as it generally is now.  As you have found though, calling something a ‘P5’ can still assist manufacturers and distributors with pricing 🙂

                          The other thing to keep in mind is that even the highest precision bearing will not provide much benefit to you unless the roundness, squareness and tolerances etc of the companion structure are made to equally high standards.

                          Gerry

                          #801610
                          Sonic Escape
                          Participant
                            @sonicescape38234

                            I already ordered a P5 bearing for the chuck end of the headstock. If you had posted the message an hour earlier… 🙂

                            On John Haine Said:

                            What’s difficult about groups.io?  I regularly use 4 of them without any problems.  What do you mean by “calendar” view?  That again is an optional feature that isn’t available in the Emco group I think.  You can choose whether to present messages in a topic in “first first” or “last first” order using a little arrow button at the top right of the list.

                            groups.io looks to me like a single list of posts from all topics. Like an endless chat window. There is a reason to group posts in topics. I hope I’m not missing some settings.

                            #801611
                            JasonB
                            Moderator
                              @jasonb

                              As I said go to the Files section. IT IS THERE and has been for 30 odd yesrs since I started using it as a Yahoo group. That is where I went yesterday to look up the bearing spec as XC P6. second or third page has th eparts list and diagram

                              files

                              #801613
                              JasonB
                              Moderator
                                @jasonb

                                files 2

                                #801616
                                Sonic Escape
                                Participant
                                  @sonicescape38234

                                  I have that manual. But now I think I understand what you mean. My menu is much shorter, without the Files entry. I guess this is because I was not worthy to be allowed in the group yet 🙂

                                  #801618
                                  jamesp1
                                  Participant
                                    @jamesp1

                                    Be very careful taking readings off the internal taper hole in the spindle. It may not give a true reading on how the actual spindle is running. Better to read off the outside diameter of the spindle, preferably where the chuck mounts. For the same reason, those ground test bars that fit in the tapered hole are not entirely trustworthy either. They are only as good as the taper fit, which can become damaged or distorted over the years.  The best test is taking a light cut along a piece of 25mm bar about 100mm long and measure it for taper. Assuming of course the preload on the tapered roller bearings is correctly set first and there is no slack on the bearings.

                                    #801630
                                    John Haine
                                    Participant
                                      @johnhaine32865

                                      When you register the moderator gets sent an alert but it may not be seen for a while. In the messages view you see a list of thread titles each with the first line of the first message in the list.  Click on the title to see the thread.

                                      #801632
                                      peak4
                                      Participant
                                        @peak4

                                        Regarding io groups, there’s also at least a couple of Emco groups on Facebook.

                                        I’ve not joined either, so can’t vouch for their content

                                        image_2025-06-06_131339573

                                        Bill

                                        #801666
                                        old mart
                                        Participant
                                          @oldmart

                                          When converting the Tom Senior light vertical from MT2 to R8 I bought a standard metric SKF for the bottom and a new imperial Timken for the top. The inner race of the Timken was made in a different country from the outer race, but I don’t have any measuring equipment that reads below 0.0001″ and cannot read any runout.

                                          A lot of B—-T is bandied about regarding the requirements of lathes and mills spindle bearings, but modern quality bearings are so good, I would also be very satisfied with NTN Japanese quality bearings.

                                          The MT3 taper in the Atlas 12 X 24 that we were given was not very good and I skimmed it with a carbide boring bar to get everything fitted in it to around 0.001″ tir or better which was the best that I could manage, good enough for government work after the original 0.004″that it started with.

                                          #801703
                                          Sonic Escape
                                          Participant
                                            @sonicescape38234

                                            I had a chat today in WhatsApp with the seller. He told me that he replaced the spindle bearings this year. Great … he mentioned this also when we meet but I didn’t understand. They have two words for bearings in Spanish. I’ll try to cancel the order.

                                            #801768
                                            jamesp1
                                            Participant
                                              @jamesp1

                                              It’s alll in the way you set the bearings up then. If you have no manual with torque specs etc, best to adjust the spindle nuts so the bearings have zero clearance and a very slight preload.

                                              Measure for clearance by holding a 300mm length of bar or pipe in the chuck and yank the end of the bar up and down while measuring spindle movement right next to the headstock with a dial indicator. Indicator base should be on the bed not the wobbly carriage etc and the indicator plunger should rest directly on the lathe spindle between the chuck and the headstock somewhere.

                                              It should have zero measureable movement. Then tighten up the spindle nuts just a bit so there is slight resistance to rotating by hand, ie a small preload on the bearings. You should be able to turn the spindles by lightly gripping with fingers, not needing to grab it like an axe handle.

                                              Once you have done that you can then check spindle runout with the dial indicator touching directly on the spindle in that same area between the chuck and headstock somewhere. Or even better, on the spindle register where the chuck locates.

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