Best way to mill a pocket in Al on a manual mill

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Best way to mill a pocket in Al on a manual mill

Home Forums Beginners questions Best way to mill a pocket in Al on a manual mill

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  • #169456
    Steve Withnell
    Participant
      @stevewithnell34426

      I have a piece of Aluminium 100mm long x 80mm wide by 25mm thick and I need to cut a substantial pocket in it using my round column Warco Minor (RF25/Chester Eagle variant) mill. It's happy with 12mm cutters, but much bigger gets to be an issue.

      What is the most effective way of milling a pocket 95mm x 75mm x 20mm deep?

      No corner must have a radius greater than 3mm and the tolerance on all dimensions must be better than +/- 0.1mm. The material is just off the shelf plate, nothing exotic.

      It seems a simple task, but I haven't done this before and I suspect there is a best method.

      Whats the expert view?

      TIA

      Steve

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      #7370
      Steve Withnell
      Participant
        @stevewithnell34426
        #169457
        Ian P
        Participant
          @ianp

          I've done many holes similar to the one you need to do. My mill is will take 16mm cutters but is happier with 10 or 12mm where I can crank the speed up. I work dry, but set up a low pressure air blow to clear the swarf.

          I sometimes remove the bulk of material on the drilling machine set with depth stop then transfer to the mill where I would use a relatively large cutter to get near finished size and then finish off with the size needed for the internal corner radii.

          Ian P

          #169463
          Gary Wooding
          Participant
            @garywooding25363

            First thing, be careful about milling aluminium – some grades are very "sticky" and tend to build up on the cutting edges of tools. The usual advice is high speeds, but I've found just the opposite. I reckon the ali welds itself to the tool edge and higher speeds mean higher temperatures. I use slow speeds and paraffin or WD40 as a lubricant. Stop immediately if/when resistance is felt, and clear the ali buildup on the cutting edges before continuing.

            To cut the pocket, I'd rough it out with a 10mm endmill, about 5mm deep at each pass. Then do the corners with a 6mm cutter (3mm radius), and then do a finishing pass all over.

            #169465
            Trevor Wright
            Participant
              @trevorwright62541

              Your machine is the Warco equivalent of my Clarke mill….

              My preference would be to hack out the middle with a 12mm end mill vertically – Like chain drilling – to within 1mm of all edges.

              Fit a 6mm end mill and and plunge mill on the 4 corners leaving about 0.2mm on each edge. Machine one end of the pocket to the edge of the plate finished, the same to a perpendicular edge. Then machine the slot to width both ways. This method means that you don't have a problem with backlash. Then clean up the bottom face.

              By roughing out vertically it prevents swarf clogging the tool and the machine is more rigid than winding bed handles.

              Trevor

              #169498
              Steve Withnell
              Participant
                @stevewithnell34426

                Looks like the consensus is to chain drill out the pocket then tidy up!

                Thanks

                Steve

                #169500
                Muzzer
                Participant
                  @muzzer

                  Probably more risky breaking through endless drilled holes – you'll get some hairy transient loads on the cutters as they break through, which would be difficult to control and could prove expensive. I'd simply mill it the way Gary suggests, stepping down in stages and conventional milling ie working round clockwise to open it to the final dimensions.

                  With a bigger machine, you'd be able to climb mill the finish (for a better finish), having roughed it out in one pass. It's also worth using slot drills designed for aluminium cutting (faster helix, better cutting angle etc). Roughing (hogging) cutters allow you to remove material a lot quicker and are worth investing in – in my books at any rate. And I'd use WD40 if using steel cutters.

                  Murray

                  #169507
                  John Haine
                  Participant
                    @johnhaine32865

                    Don't use an end mill, they won't plunge cut. Use a slot drill. Anyway 4 flute cutters seem unhappy dealing with Ali on my Novamill, 2 flute slot mills seem much happier. I run them fast, lubricate wth mixture of cutting oil and paraffin, and quite fast feed. I think the solution to the Ali sticking to the cutter is to get it hot enough and fast enough it doesn't get a chance to stick!

                    #169514
                    I.M. OUTAHERE
                    Participant
                      @i-m-outahere

                      Hi Steve ,

                      I'm curious as to how you are going to hold the piece ?

                      If you are going to clamp it in a vice then be mind full that as you remove material it will weaken it and it may flex and if you are going to clamp it down to the table check it is not twisted by giving it a rub on some emery cloth or the like on a flat plate – something that has been machined or ground will do like a drill press table , mill table or surface plate , if it is twisted and you clamp it down it will twist again when you release it .

                      if you can leave it a little long say 20mm each end and clamp it down to the table with 4 clamps and against a fence I would do it this way and trim it to size last .

                      I would blue it up, mark it out ( height gauge and surface plate if you have&nbsp rough it out to full depth with the biggest slot drill or centre cutting end mill( if you have one ) that you feel comfortable working with leaving .5mm on all inside surfaces except the bottom as it is cut to full depth . Clean up the rest with the 6mm cutter.

                      I find wd40 not too bad as a cutting fluid on aluminium and tap magic is good as well .

                      If you don't have a DRO on the mill a couple of cheapie long travel dial indicators could be a good investment as they allow you to move the table around irrespective of how much backlash your machine has , just set one on the y axis and the other on the x axis and you have a poor mans DRO good to a thou or so at least !

                      That's my slant on things anyhow !

                       

                      Ian

                      Edited By XD 351 on 14/11/2014 03:41:22

                      #169515
                      I.M. OUTAHERE
                      Participant
                        @i-m-outahere

                        Why does this web page add smiley faces to my post and then log you out so you can't edit them out ?

                        please ignore the little yellow mongrel winky thing as I didn't put it there and surely there has to be a way of turning these off permanently?

                        it would make a good target for sighting in my .303 though !

                        Ian

                        #169524
                        Ian S C
                        Participant
                          @iansc

                          Steve, I'd drill the corners to depth first, then change to the 12 mm , but use a slot drill here too it gives more clearance for swarfe removal. I'd take 3 x 5 mm deep cuts, check the depth take perhaps a 4 mm deep cut, and finish with a 1 mm cut, maybe a bit faster if possible, or a slower feed.  Finish into the corners either with the 6 mm cutter, or do it by hand with a little chisel.

                          Ian S C

                          Edited By Ian S C on 14/11/2014 09:01:02

                          #169526
                          Neil Wyatt
                          Moderator
                            @neilwyatt

                            Hi XD,

                            It's the combination of some characters and a bracket – a pain, but it's built into the editor so the web designers can't take it out

                            Neil

                            #169527
                            Neil Wyatt
                            Moderator
                              @neilwyatt

                              Steve,

                              I have to admit, that doesn't leave you much metal at the end, take care it doesn't distort under milling forces when near the end.

                              I would fit a big slot drill, hitch up my belt and rough out the middle, then finish with a 6mm end mill.

                              Or buy a suitable box from CPC or RS

                              Neil

                              #169563
                              Jon
                              Participant
                                @jon

                                I do similar all the time, as XD said rough it out with a two flute maybe 10mm dia cutter – 12mm pushing it a bit much with that machine though would take 19.4mm cutters, used to have one.

                                Use uncoated cutters and continually blow out the debris. Plus point very little coolant will be needed and will be contained within. Careful if using ER collet cutter may drop unknowingly or cut a taper, used to cop us out at work. General rule for aluminiums is you cannot have too much speed, people use 30000 rpm routers! As mentioned before get a feel for whats happening, you will know if the cutters doing its job, don't force it.

                                Once roughed near to size slap in a 4 flute long 6mm, check cutter flutes are at least 20mm. Downside is the cutter will flex so minor cuts to finish off to size climb milling (working anti clockwise) with bed locks nipped up will leave a good finish. Alternatively can use a long fluted 6mm with say flutes 10mm, shank will rub below that so keep plenty of coolant on.

                                Holding in a 4" vice will be more than adequate. Gripping force initially over the length to start with and will end up gripping on each ends 2.5mm = fine. Granted if using a 3" vice, around 5mm wall using 6082 aluminium it will start to collapse. If it moves then you tighten job back up, it will cut a taper.

                                Depth of cut passes you will have to suck it and see, key is get a feel for whats happening. ie if its tough going ease depth of cut off. You will hear the cutting change note when it starts to pick up and bind to the tool, this can be straight away or after several passes going down in depth. Aluminiums can be a right swine for binding up especially threads.

                                #169572
                                john kennedy 1
                                Participant
                                  @johnkennedy1

                                  The tolerance of +/- 0.1 mm is asking a lot (for me anyway)

                                  Have you got any stops you can set up on x and y ?

                                  Set them up on a test piece to your sizes and you can do it without looking nerd

                                  #169573
                                  JasonB
                                  Moderator
                                    @jasonb

                                    I'd stick it in the 4-jaw and turn a 74mm hole almost to depth as thats the quickest way to get most of the material out, then onto the mill 12mm cutter to take it out to 94×74, finally finish with a 6mm cutter.

                                    Did a 40x 50 x 45 deep pocket a few months ago which would have been a long job on the mill but drilling 25mm followed by boring out on the lathe was quick and just finished with a long reach 10mm cutter on the mill

                                    Edited By JasonB on 14/11/2014 16:30:56

                                    #169593
                                    Neil Wyatt
                                    Moderator
                                      @neilwyatt

                                      > Careful if using ER collet cutter may drop unknowingly or cut a taper, used to cop us out at work.

                                      I've been caught by this a couple of times. Really pays to lubricate the collet (outside) and tighten as much as you can.

                                      But I'm starting to think of getting a clarkson type screw-in cutter holder.

                                      Neil

                                      #169597
                                      Breva
                                      Participant
                                        @breva

                                        "Careful if using ER collet cutter may drop unknowingly or cut a taper, used to cop us out at work."

                                        "I've been caught by this a couple of times. Really pays to lubricate the collet (outside) and tighten as much as you can."

                                        Jon and Neil,

                                        Are you suggesting the ER collet loosens during the work?

                                        Why do you think this happens? I have a set and even though I have not noticed it happening I am glad to be forewarned about the possibility.

                                        John

                                        #169601
                                        Ian P
                                        Participant
                                          @ianp
                                          Posted by Neil Wyatt on 14/11/2014 19:17:49:

                                          > Careful if using ER collet cutter may drop unknowingly or cut a taper, used to cop us out at work.

                                          I've been caught by this a couple of times. Really pays to lubricate the collet (outside) and tighten as much as you can.

                                          But I'm starting to think of getting a clarkson type screw-in cutter holder.

                                          Neil

                                          Maybe I have been lucky but I have never had a cutter move, trouble with the 'tighten as much as you can technique' is that it depends on the users interpretation. Maybe some data exist that gives torque settings for every diameter of collet (and type of nut), but sticking the routine would take up too much time.

                                          I think one has to have a degree of mechanical sympathy here, I tighten my nuts by feel, Its pretty obvious when all the springiness and clearance has been accommodated. After that point the nut just needs a good talking too, whatever happens it not going to rotate very far as all the contacting surfaces are pretty hard.

                                          Ian P

                                          #169603
                                          Neil Wyatt
                                          Moderator
                                            @neilwyatt

                                            Every time it's happened to me, my impression is that it's either I haven't tightened it properly (see Andrew J's article in the current ME) or been with a screwed shank cutter where part of the screwed section is held by the collet.

                                            Probably on 4 or 5 occasions.

                                            Neil

                                            #169606
                                            JasonB
                                            Moderator
                                              @jasonb

                                              Neil have you tried one of Ketans bearing collet nuts ? You can tighten the nut more with the same effort.I have not had problems with cutters creaping

                                              #169616
                                              Enough!
                                              Participant
                                                @enough
                                                Posted by Neil Wyatt on 14/11/2014 09:24:30:

                                                It's the combination of some characters and a bracket – a pain, but it's built into the editor so the web designers can't take it out

                                                According to a PM conversation I had with the web-maintenance lady (Katie?) some time ago, that's not completely true, Neil. Apparently, the editor can be configured so that smileys can only be added via the drop-down (thus solving the problem of, for example, quote followed by parenthesis). However users in some other forums here are deathly afraid of mice (presumably they leap up on chairs when they see one). To accommodate them, the editor is configured to insert smileys the old-fashioned way (via keyboard characters) in addition the the drop-down.

                                                #169635
                                                Neil Wyatt
                                                Moderator
                                                  @neilwyatt

                                                  Thanks – I didn't know that.

                                                  I'm an old schooler and would be happy to stick with 'typographic smileys' and no silly pictures at all

                                                  neil

                                                  #169650
                                                  Ian S C
                                                  Participant
                                                    @iansc

                                                    In my previous entry I said drill holes in the corners, but on thinking about it, I wouldn't bother. Just finish with a 6 mm slot drill, wind the speed up to max, and take a finishing cut right round the perimeter with a slow feed, preferably climb mill it and the chips get pushed out behind the cutter, only take a few thou off this way and there should be no trouble, even my (bit dodgy) mill will do this OK.

                                                    Ian S C

                                                    #169654
                                                    Steve Withnell
                                                    Participant
                                                      @stevewithnell34426

                                                      Thanks! Boring the core out of the material on the lathe is an interesting idea. Sounds like a good plan to leave the blank material oversize and clamp directly to the bed. I need to maintain a datum in X,Y, and Z for the pocket so will need to be careful the edges are "getatable" after clamping.

                                                      I found a 5mm high helix long series carbide cutter in the box so that sounds ideal for cleaning up the periphery to size.

                                                      The internal dimensions of the pocket are quite critical – it's not a box but an RF cavity. I've just tweaked the design a bit and the pocket turns out at 89.8mm x 68.8mm x 20mm. That means the walls will be just over 5mm rather than 2.5mm which will help considerably with the clamping problem.

                                                      Steve

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