Milling machine stops

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Milling machine stops

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  • #85894
    Wolfie
    Participant
      @wolfie

      Hi gang, next problem!

      I could do with some suggestions on how to make stops for my milling table in the Y-axis. The X-axis is easy, I move the table to where I want it to stop and put an engineers clamp up against the mounting at that spot, repeat at the other end.

      But the Y-axis is underneath and out of sight and theres nowhere to put more clamps. I keep making a mess cos I always turn the wheel the wrong way first grrr.

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      #5986
      Wolfie
      Participant
        @wolfie
        #85898
        Tony Pratt 1
        Participant
          @tonypratt1

          Hi Wolfie, this isn't going to answer your question but why do people want table stops on a milling m/c? If you have a power feed stops may be applicable but surely you just stop winding once you are clear of the work or am I missing something?

          Tony

          #85903
          Wolfie
          Participant
            @wolfie

            Its more for when I'm trying to mill a cavity and DON'T want to clear the work, the very opposite in fact.

            And they look ragged as owt if you do it by eye.

            #85906
            JasonB
            Moderator
              @jasonb

              Wolfie even without stops they should not look ragged, just make sure you stop when the handwheel gets the the right reading. As for turning the wrong way you have only had your mill a few weeks, it will become second nature which way to turn after a while.

              J

              #85934
              Wolfie
              Participant
                @wolfie

                Thats the problem, the pointers to the sccale leave some accuracy to be desired.

                #85937
                Mark P.
                Participant
                  @markp

                  Jason I quite agree with Wolfie about the need for table stops,and the accuracy of the scales on the more budget range of millers. If someone can come up with some ideas I would also be interested.

                  Mark P.

                  #85938
                  Michael Cox 1
                  Participant
                    @michaelcox1

                    Hi Wolfie,

                    I fitted stops to my small X1 mill. I think you could do someting similar on yours, see:

                    http://mikesworkshop.weebly.com/mill-table-stops-and-locks.html

                    I hope this helps

                    Mike

                    #85943
                    Harold Hall 1
                    Participant
                      @haroldhall1

                      Have a look here at Photograph 18, may give you an idea for the Y axis.

                      Incidentally, the concertina slide cover is made from a folded cornflakes packet and varnished to keep out the oil. It very recently failed after 20 years use.

                      Personally, I find both the X and Y axis stops very useful!

                      Harold

                      #85944
                      Gone Away
                      Participant
                        @goneaway
                        Posted by Tony Pratt 1 on 26/02/2012 19:33:18:

                        why do people want table stops on a milling m/c? If you have a power feed stops may be applicable but surely you just stop winding once you are clear of the work or am I missing something?

                        It's not stops you want with power-feed, it's limit switches. Hitting a stop will just bust something.

                        Stops are OK in principle if you want to repeatedly (and repeatably) mill up to a specific point but I always found them difficult to set. You can mill up to the point then slide the stop up and lock it but next time up it'll go a few thou farther – at least in my experience. Mine aren't even on the machine any more.

                        #85946
                        Anonymous

                          I don't have stops on any of my mills; and I can't say I've ever missed them. Both manual mills do have adjustable limit trips for the power feeds, but that's another story. The cavities in this picture were machined manually without stops:

                          Cavities

                          I do have a DRO though, which makes it a bit easier.

                          Regards,

                          Andrew

                          #85947
                          Ady1
                          Participant
                            @ady1

                            Thats the problem, the pointers to the scale leave some accuracy to be desired.

                             

                            As a fellow newbie I can save you a LOT of time. Fit a DRO Wolfie

                            As an experiment, fit a $10 vernier(properly, do a decent job of it) and be amazed

                            I can do repeatability stuff to 1-2 hundredths of a mm on a 1944 Drummond clunker with DRO

                            (Watching that tooltip scrape minute amounts of metal from inside a thread when threadcutting was a revelation.)

                             

                            Once you've got an independent DRO fitted you'll be singing as you mill

                             

                            I messed about with all sorts of things, including a 1000mile round trip to pick up a cheap pultra prototype lathe, so I had some high quality gear to copy/profile.

                            na

                            I should have just fitted a $10 DRO right at the start

                            Edited By Ady1 on 26/02/2012 23:38:48

                            #85966
                            Martin W
                            Participant
                              @martinw

                              Hi

                              While reading a book on turning, copyright 1910, I came across, under the chapter on screw cutting, where a stop was fitted on the cross-slide to limit the depth that the tool cuts on each pass. I would think that a similar system could be fabricated to fit on the 'y' axis of a mill.

                              As the copyright is long expired I have included the relevant section below;-

                              Cross-slide stop

                              Hope this helps

                              Martin

                              #85981
                              RJKflyer
                              Participant
                                @rjkflyer

                                I remember this same challenge when I started out.

                                My initial answer was to do two things:

                                1. To work out the backlash in each scale so I could mill 'back and forth' in a slot (As you mention) without contantly making it slightly larger!

                                2. To add a couple of differently coloured small circular stickers to the fixed part of the wheel scale and ends of mill table so I could see at a glance which way turning the wheel would move the table (prevents the 'oh bugger' moment when you mill the 'wrong' way).

                                I have to say that now with digital scales, problem (1) is solved and problem (2) has mitigated with experience. However, I have to say (2) does very occasionally still happen – perhaps I should put the stickers back on!

                                #85988
                                colin hawes
                                Participant
                                  @colinhawes85982

                                  If you need accuracy with stops you can use a fag paper to get a good feel.When the paper is just nipped you are there. Colin.

                                  #85995
                                  Tony Pratt 1
                                  Participant
                                    @tonypratt1

                                    Hi Sid, yes I meant to say limit switches, stops would be a disaster with power feed! If you have micromter dials I fail to see what would be gained with a stop and I would imagine you will get a positional variation depending how hard the stop is hit. Wolfie has your mill actually got micrometer dials as you mention scales???

                                    Tony

                                    #86003
                                    Gone Away
                                    Participant
                                      @goneaway
                                      Posted by Tony Pratt 1 on 27/02/2012 17:44:24:

                                      If you have micromter dials I fail to see what would be gained with a stop and I would imagine you will get a positional variation depending how hard the stop is hit.

                                      Well, I think the perceived advantage is that it speeds things up by reducing the amount of care you have to take when approaching the end of a cut but as you say I've never found it that repeatable. And if you are making a deep slot or other blind cut with a small dia cutter, a few thou overshoot can bust the cutter.

                                      Funny thing is, people (me included) frequently use similar stops on lathe carriage movement quite successfully.

                                      Edited By Sid Herbage on 27/02/2012 18:28:04

                                      #86026
                                      Jon
                                      Participant
                                        @jon

                                        Think your all missing the point, stops are totally advantageous for repetition work. One or two offs i wouldnt bother.

                                        The repeatability would come down to one or more of play in the beds, quill, runout and most likely machine casting flex.

                                        Never had the need on Y axis though, turn the work round 90 degrees.

                                        Most power feeds come with stops and a double plunger switch to trip the feed. The main stops can go to the side and over the top to act as a stop.

                                        #86035
                                        Anonymous
                                          Posted by Jon on 27/02/2012 21:19:32:

                                          Think your all missing the point, stops are totally advantageous for repetition work. One or two offs i wouldnt bother.

                                          I don't think so! If the job involved repetition I wouldn't be p1ssing about on a manual mill, stops or no stops. I'd fire up the CNC mill. teeth 2

                                          Regards,

                                          Andrew

                                          #86046
                                          Harold Hall 1
                                          Participant
                                            @haroldhall1

                                            I think most definitely you are missing the point Andrew. Why is it that so many people that have CNC in their workshop seem to think that ever body should, perhaps you can answer this?

                                            Much more affordable machines has made the hobby available to a considerably number who otherwise would not be able to be involved. Universal use of CNC would probably price out at least 75% of those presently enjoying the hobby, me included.

                                            Perhaps Andrew you would prefer the hobby to be open just to an elite band.

                                             

                                            Harold

                                            Edited By Harold Hall 1 on 28/02/2012 07:53:45

                                            #86048
                                            Wolfie
                                            Participant
                                              @wolfie

                                              Cheers all, both Michael and Harold have given me some ideas thumbs up

                                              #86055
                                              Harold Hall 1
                                              Participant
                                                @haroldhall1

                                                I agree Jon, Table stops are very useful on repeat parts and I include in this repeat processes on a single part. Typically, if milling a closed end stop, say 6mm wide in 12mm thick, it would need multiple passes. Setting the end stops would simplify this especially for us oldies. With memory not being what it once was I could of course write down the DRO reading, say 0.879". However, when traversing the table and observing the DRO it would not be unusual to jumble the numbers and machine to 0.897" only to find when then looking at the part that I had gone too far.

                                                Mechanical end stops virtually eliminate such a situation.

                                                Having recently used my mill and rotary table to cross out some clock wheels, I set both ends of the X and Y axis stops and this enabled me to mill the spokes and the inner and outer curves at the one setting. Again, errors were almost impossible.

                                                Any viewer who would like to see details of this setup view here

                                                Harold

                                                #86058
                                                Ady1
                                                Participant
                                                  @ady1

                                                  Apart from the bed stop which has high rigidity built in, I always found slide stops too wooly for accurate work.

                                                  The leadscrew can impart too much torque and I had to be really careful as it came up against the stop.

                                                  If I "pushed" the slide up against the stop, even a bit too much, I lost accurate repeatability.

                                                   

                                                  edit

                                                  I got fed up after that and went DRO

                                                   

                                                  They used lever operated slides with stops on pultra mass production gear

                                                  Perhaps lever operated slides are easier to control

                                                   

                                                  If stops were the answer to repeatable accuracy then I guess that the mass production companies would just use cheap labour to operate their production lines, instead of buying expensive automated equipment, especially in those third world places where you can get people for a dollar a day.

                                                  Edited By Ady1 on 28/02/2012 11:50:18

                                                  #86062
                                                  NJH
                                                  Participant
                                                    @njh

                                                    Harold !

                                                    Crossing out clock wheels using the mill & rotary table – good grief where is your sense of tradition ? (Good idea though!! )

                                                    Which clock are you making?

                                                    Norman

                                                    #86073
                                                    Jon
                                                    Participant
                                                      @jon
                                                      Posted by Andrew Johnston on 27/02/2012 22:49:51:I don't think so! If the job involved repetition I wouldn't be p1ssing about on a manual mill, stops or no stops. I'd fire up the CNC mill. teeth 2Regards,

                                                      Andrew

                                                      Suppose it stops the boredom if nothing else. By time proggied it, could have done the jobthinking comprendhe.

                                                      For those that dont or wont have cnc with its inherant problems and requiring proper machining skill than sitting behind a pc, it can benefit.

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