Help with clock escapement

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Help with clock escapement

This topic has 62 replies, 10 voices, and was last updated 22 January 2018 at 11:13 by Ian Parkin.

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17 November 2017 at 16:21 #33103
Ian Parkin
Participant
@ianparkin39383
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17 November 2017 at 16:21 #327664
Ian Parkin
Participant
@ianparkin39383
Some years ago I had one of these key-less gravity clocks which sat on my mantelpiece and ran faultlessly for year in year out with no maintainance other than lifting it to the top every day.

It was stolen some years ago…I managed to buy another in very good condition but very dirty so after a complete strip down and clean its back together but i cant get it to run for longer than 10 seconds.

This is the clock

This is the back plate before the escapement goes on

There’s a little stub chamfered with a chord cut off that the pivot bracket goes on like this

This is fastened on with a couple of screws
17 November 2017 at 16:30 #327666
Ian Parkin
Participant
@ianparkin39383
Then the pendulum fits on and the escapement wheel like this

The pendulum ? It has brass balls at each end the top end is fixed the bottom is threaded where as a start does it go if i suspend it on its pivots how much biased towards the bottom should it be ?

The part in the middle of the pendulum (pallets?)

Is the idea that this is absolutely at 90 degrees to the shaft…it didn’t look it when i started i can grasp it with pliers and move it so it is at an angle. When the pendulum is installed it wont self start if i help it it runs for 10 seconds slowing al the time until it stops..the screws that hold the pivot allow a slight engagement adjustment in or out of mesh..very slight.

Is the idea that the escapement wheel kicks the pendulum every stroke?

Can anyone offer any advice on setting this up to a beginner in clocks?
17 November 2017 at 16:30 #327667
Michael Gilligan
Participant
@michaelgilligan61133
Ian,

Looking at all those file-marks on the plate; I would suspect that this one has suffered some tinkering.

I suggest you check all the pivot holes for alignment, and that the arbors all move freely.

MichaelG.

.

Edit: I've just found this, which might help:

https://www.clockrepairtips.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1232

Note: Despite the recent problems with PhotoBucket, the slideshow linked in that thread does work, and is well worth a look.

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 17/11/2017 16:41:02

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 17/11/2017 16:59:49
17 November 2017 at 16:40 #327670
Ian Parkin
Participant
@ianparkin39383
Michael

I dont think they are file marks..its a very cheaply made clock i would imagine and i would say its had little tinkering with it in the last 100 years.

If i remove the escapement wheel the clock travels nicely down the column in about 30 seconds
17 November 2017 at 16:48 #327674
Ian Parkin
Participant
@ianparkin39383
I had seen that page but it ends before a resolution Michael
17 November 2017 at 17:04 #327675
Ian Parkin
Participant
@ianparkin39383
As i have the pendulum set at the moment without the escapement wheel it will swing for about 30 -40 seconds or so before stopping
17 November 2017 at 17:43 #327682
Tim Stevens
Participant
@timstevens64731
When the pendulum is swinging under the designed load, does it beat properly – ie is the time between each tic and toc exactly the same?

The half-round piece on the pendulum is the critical bit, along with the escape wheel itself. If the ticking is irregular but the same each time the scape wheel turns, then one or more teeth may be out of position. If the tic and the toc are different lengths, ie tic … toc tic … toc, then the pendulum is not set correctly in relation to the half-circle. From the photo it seems nearly right but that may not be enough. It may be that one arm of the pendulum is slightly bent.

There is oil on the various bits, especially the scape teeth, isn't there?

Cheers, Tim
18 November 2017 at 20:47 #327834
Michael Gilligan
Participant
@michaelgilligan61133
Ian,

My previous effort was evidently of no help to you, but I continue to find this clock interesting.

It is just possible that you have not yet found the patent, as it seems to have been quite cunningly concealed [the majority of references cite GB140668 (A)]

**LINK**

https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/originalDocument?CC=CA&NR=215407A&KC=A&FT=D&ND=3&date=19220131&DB=EPODOC&locale=en_EP

**LINK**

https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/originalDocument?CC=US&NR=1368004A&KC=A&FT=D&ND=3&date=19210208&DB=EPODOC&locale=en_EP

I hope that is of some help, and look forward to hearing of your success.

MichaelG
18 November 2017 at 21:26 #327842
Michael Gilligan
Participant
@michaelgilligan61133
Too late to edit the previous post:

Here's a nice video of the escapement in action **LINK**

… looking and sounding much as it should.

MichaelG.
19 November 2017 at 09:57 #327883
roy entwistle
Participant
@royentwistle24699
MichaelG

That sounds slightly out of balance to me but proves that it will work even if not level

Roy
19 November 2017 at 10:10 #327886
Michael Gilligan
Participant
@michaelgilligan61133
Posted by roy entwistle on 19/11/2017 09:57:22:

MichaelG

That sounds slightly out of balance to me but proves that it will work even if not level

Roy

.

Agreed, Roy … hence "much as it should"

Regarding it's being capable of running out-of-level … it's worth looking at the patent claims; there's some interesting ideas tucked away there.

MichaelG.
19 November 2017 at 13:00 #327921
Michael Gilligan
Participant
@michaelgilligan61133
Oh the shame of it … I have just spotted a superfluous apostrophe in my previous post.

MichaelG.
19 November 2017 at 15:17 #327934
roy entwistle
Participant
@royentwistle24699
Think nothing of it

Roy
19 November 2017 at 15:43 #327940
Ian Parkin
Participant
@ianparkin39383
Still not got anywhere with it

I’m sure the gear train is ok it travels down the rack now in about 10 seconds

If i instal the escapement wheel it takes the lightest touch to stop it

If i then install the pendulum it only runs for perhaps 5-10 seconds I’ve tried adjusting the angle of the pallets and the bottom ball at all levels

I’ll look through al the above links
19 November 2017 at 21:35 #328013
roy entwistle
Participant
@royentwistle24699
I would ( if possible ) adjust the top ball rather than the bottom one. It's a compound pendulum and shouldn't need a lot of adjustment.

I think I would start with the balls about the same distance apart and concentrate on the angle and depth of the pallets. Once you get it going, then is the time to start altering the pendulum length

Roy
19 November 2017 at 22:44 #328018
Ian Parkin
Participant
@ianparkin39383
Roy

I dont seem to be able to adjust the top ball

I’ve printed off the patent description and set the pallets as described but the escapement wheel just doesn’t seem to be giving an impulse to the pendulum.If i press down hard on the top it seems to work better but still not like the one in the video link and how i remember my old clock working

If i remove the escapement wheel it descends nicely and smoothly…. with it back on and the pendulum removed a strip of paper 70 gsm 6mm wide held 40mm away will stop the wheel…there’s so little power …surely it should bend that slip of paper

What oil should i use to lube everything ?..though the patent mentions lubrication isn’t important
20 November 2017 at 11:44 #328075
Ian Parkin
Participant
@ianparkin39383
Ive just uploaded a short video of how easy it is to stop the escapement wheel with a slip of paper

**LINK**

Given that the weight of the head is fixed and it seems to drop down the columns nicely why wont the wheel kick the pendulum?

Ian
20 November 2017 at 12:40 #328086
Tim Stevens
Participant
@timstevens64731
Just a possibility:

Perhaps the previous owner had trouble, took it apart, and fitted the scape wheel backwards by mistake? Or perhaps used a wheel which looked about right from a different clock? Or even used the pendulum boss from a different model?

And then, couldn't get it to go and sold it.

I do hope I'm wrong

Tim
20 November 2017 at 12:43 #328087
Tim Stevens
Participant
@timstevens64731
I don't think your paper test necessarily reveals a problem. In any escapement, the actual force between scape wheel and pallet is extremely small. I guess that if you applied your test to any other clock you would find a similar effect. But I'm not a clockmaker.

Cheers, Tim
20 November 2017 at 13:39 #328095
Ian Parkin
Participant
@ianparkin39383
Tim

I have no experience in clocks too but it looks such a simple gear train…certainly when i took this one to bits it looked like its never been apart before all screws are pristine

My test was just to see how much force there was at the wheel i’m Not sure that it tells me anything usefull but when its together the pendulum wont self start which it should and if i start it it only runs for perhaps 10 seconds slowing down all the time then stops

The patent that Micheal found for me helped immensely and i’m Sure it should now work…i’ll Have to find a clock repairer before i go mad with it

Anybody know what sort of oil to use?
20 November 2017 at 16:26 #328113
roy entwistle
Participant
@royentwistle24699
Clock oil.

Roy

Some idea where you live might help

Edited By roy entwistle on 20/11/2017 16:28:23
20 November 2017 at 16:26 #328115
Michael Gilligan
Participant
@michaelgilligan61133
Ian,

As I have never worked on one of these clocks; this is pure ~~intuition~~ guesswork.

Originally, you stated: "If i remove the escapement wheel the clock travels nicely down the column in about 30 seconds" ; and now that figure has improved to "about 10 seconds".

This suggests to me that there is something amiss with the wheel-work and/or the bearings on the column.

… I don't know what the 'design figure' is … but something doesn't seem right.

Any excess friction in these areas would obviously absorb energy that should be reaching the escapement.

MichaelG.
20 November 2017 at 18:01 #328124
Ian Parkin
Participant
@ianparkin39383
Michael

Its actually now goes down in 7 seconds which corresponds to 30 hours of hand movement.

I’ve removed the mechanism stripped it down reassembled and oiled it with Mobil 1 0w20. Which some clock forums seemed to recommend as its purely synthetic. Ive washed it complete in thinners then run it..I’ve then stripped it again cleaned it run it and then oiled it. I’ve run it dry..I’ve run it lightly oiled. I’ve lubed it with 3 in 1 with ptfe

With all these try’s it now goes down in 7 seconds

If i remove the last gear pair which drives the escapement spindle it drops like a stone but nothing is binding on the shafts or bearings….this gear is a 60 tooth driving a 6 tooth so a big upgear ratio
20 November 2017 at 18:29 #328133
Michael Gilligan
Participant
@michaelgilligan61133
Sounds good, Ian

… Sorry but I'm out of ideas for the moment.

MichaelG.
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