Still running MSDOS 3.1.1 – super keys and all! on one computer.

But on this machine I've got Win 10 but using Shell button for old style navigation – can't stand these app based functions.

Martin

I am a little concerned regarding Win11. In the past updates have been applicable to a range of fairly recent machines (with the caveat that drivers must have been written for the new OS)

Windows 11 has moved away from this and appears to be only suitable for the very highest spec and newest machines.

We are again entering the realms of two operating systems that are developed in parallel for two different customer bases as when Win98 and NT ran in parallel.

Hopefully all peripherals will use the same drivers as otherwise we may be forced to buy products that suit the operating system and not the use they will be put to – eg if you only do the odd hardcopy printout at home will the £50 supermarket printer have drivers available for the high end laptop you have the more powerful OS installed on?

Also will development continue on the Win10 that most current machines run on?

Before anyone suggests MacOs or Linux they have already been through similar processes – one of my Macs has to have OsX10.4 and no later and while there are many many different versions of Linux if you wish to use a 32bit distro or one that loads from CD, not DVD or one for non-PAE machines your choice is quite restricted.

Anyway, other than to suggest it has already happened elsewhere discussions of other minor OSs are beside the point – we are looking at the OS that according to at least one website in September 2021 had a desktop market share of 87.56% so the impact of any problems could be huge. Changing horses midstream is something not likely to happen for most users.

When support ceases for W10 it will be crunch time for any machine that connects to the internet and has personal data and applications you would want to be secure. The push to take everything online is inexorable and to not be connected is making life increasingly difficult. I am 65 and have almost grown up with the Personal Computer and embraced the technology, my mother in law never mastered the video recorder and a simple mobile phone was beyond her, a smart phone may as well come from another planet. Jumping in now with W11 will undoubtedly run into some problems especially with legacy software and hardware, the first service release will clear some issues and some supplier patches will resolve other issues but in the end it can be easier to replace old software and hardware unless you relish solving problems and have the ability to do so. I have just bought a new PC to run as a W11 machine and will migrate slowly over to that and see what problems arise, when it does all that we need it to do and is stable then the W10 machine can be retired or repurposed.

Mike

For the many who have unsupported processors, Windows 11 can be downloaded and installed using a straightforward registry mod. It's described in the most recent issue of "Computer Actve" . Google will also identify it.

Claimed to be approved by Microsoft.

For myself, the most irritating feature of W11 is the inability to position the taskbar at the side of the screen.

That's it in a nutshell – if I read it right, the main difference is Windows 11 requires a Microsoft Account be set-up, whereas W10 can be anonymous. W11 intrudes further into our privacy, which is a mixed blessing. I distrust Facebook, Google and others harvesting my data, you may not care. As corporates don't like their computers phoning outsiders, it's likely the W11 Pro-version will work without the user having a Microsoft Account: corporates pay for privacy.

One source describes Windows 11 as Windows 10 with Windows 10X slapped on top. More a rebranding exercise than upgraded technology. You get new wallpaper, icons, themes and a dark mode. The Start Menu is centred, Search and Start are separated, Application Windows are now consistent, and Windows Terminal is installed as standard, not an optional download. Superficial changes to look and feel but mostly still W10 under the bonnet. Thus W11 should be highly compatible with anything already working on W10.

That said, there are a number of bundled applications that require specific hardware. It's not clear what happens if W11 is installed on an incapable machine: my guess is that a few affected features won't work but everything else will be fine. By saying your hardware is inadequate, Microsoft are warning they won't support any problems encountered on that machine: if W11 doesn't work on your old banger, don't ring them!

Dave

I rather like it , having been using it in the insider program for about 6 weeks. I have put together a second desktop with new motherboard, processor and ram which comply with Microsoft's minimum requirements which has W10 pro 64 and having the TPM and secure boot running, it is now waiting for Microsoft to get around to offering the update. It would be possible to update a standard desktop pc for about £180, maybe a bit less. There are firms selling Athlon 3000G with A320 chipset motherboards for about £120 and there is plenty of cheap DDR4 2400 ram on the market being sold by people who are installing faster ram. If your copy of Windows started life as a full version, then you should be able to put a downloaded ISO of W10 64 bit on the new system and get it activated. Then the TPM and secure boot can be activated in the BIOS and when Microsoft get around to you, the update to W11 should go ahead. For those using high end systems, updating would be more expensive. I found that the low end Athlon 3000G actually runs faster than my Phenom4300. I don't think W11 is available in a 32 bit version, which may be a problem for some users.

There is a lot more information on the W10 and W11 forums.

Edited By old mart on 02/11/2021 14:34:44

Edited By old mart on 02/11/2021 14:36:21

Is there anything a normal person want to do now that they couldn't do 5 years ago on whatever was the standard then? It seems to be more about pushing you to spend more buy more.

You could word process on a Sinclair ZX81 forty odd years ago using Tasword and a parallel port adaptor and I knew of one BBC Master that was connected to a laser printer but in this interconnected age being non-standard can be a problem.

If you have a pc which qualifies for the update to W11 from W10, it will be obvious from the message when you go into "settings- windows update". Unfortunately, older generations of processors and hardware cannot be updated to the higher level of security to combat the ever growing problem from internet attacks.

I like W11 because it runs quicker than W10, but it has differences which do take some getting used to. My laptop is compatible with everything except the processor, an Intel i3 is only 6th generation and lacks something in the security area. That one will be staying with W10 which has another 4 years of supported life.

From my limited W11 needs, there have been fewer bugs than when W10 was in its infancy.

Edited By old mart on 02/11/2021 17:28:30

This particular grandad uses the PC for comms, browsing, CAD/CAM, simulations of various sorts from clock pendulums to quite complex RF filters. Laptop with extension screen essential, one day I'll be back to monthly commuting (I hope) and need to take it all with me. Also have tablet for reading, phone for keeping in touch via email and WhatsApp, and more recently using OS maps for walking and cycling. The only "desktop" I have lives on a shelf under a bench in the workshop, an old Dell XP machine running Mach3.

Loads of stuff I can do now that I couldn't 5 years ago. As Dave says, no such thing as a "normal" person.

I cannot for the life of me see why an owner of a computer should allow an organisation, an American organisation at that, to control what I may, or may not, do with my computer. To me it is like buying a car, and then being told by the manufacturer that you must use this brand of petrol, and no other. Anyone trying that on with me would be told in no uncertain terms to "xxxx xxx".

I use Linux Mint, and whilst there is a problem in that the latest version doesn't allow me to easily run a DOS based database system, I can, at the moment work around it. But, as far as I know, the suppliers of Mint do not know that I use Mint. There may, of course, be a "backdoor system" that I know nothing about, but at least I haven't got Microsoft demanding that I set up an account with them.

Ditch Microsoft: Go Linux.

Peter G. Shaw