Bending brass – hot, warm or cold?

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Bending brass – hot, warm or cold?

This topic has 12 replies, 9 voices, and was last updated 13 April 2021 at 16:28 by Versaboss.

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6 April 2021 at 22:23 #538442
Versaboss
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@versaboss
Hello all,

I'm trying to produce two small cocks (for relieving cylinder pressure at the ends of a steam cylinder, I'm not sure what the correct name for these is). Anyway I tried to bend the actuating stem (brass, 3 mm dia.) about 30°. I warmed the place where the bend had to be with a small gas burner, but the brass broke already after a very small bend.
I'm wondering now if there is a better method – either VERY hot or cold?
I'm trying to save the part by building it from two parts, soldered together. it would be difficult to reproduce the part, as I lost the angle for turning the taper.

Any help appreciated,
Hans
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6 April 2021 at 22:23 #28092
Versaboss
Participant
@versaboss
-that’s the question
6 April 2021 at 22:29 #538445
bernard towers
Participant
@bernardtowers37738
Anneal it first
6 April 2021 at 22:30 #538446
John Haine
Participant
@johnhaine32865
I think somewhere I read that you need to get brass VERY hot to anneal it before bending, I'll try to find the reference.
6 April 2021 at 22:38 #538448
Michael Gilligan
Participant
@michaelgilligan61133
A potentially tricky, and unpredictable, job

A lot depends on the grade of Brass [which may not be known]

Brass is not so much a true alloy, but a mixture
… and if you heat it too much, it can de-zincify

there may also be significant lead content to complicate things.

MichaelG.
6 April 2021 at 23:51 #538455
Michael Gilligan
Participant
@michaelgilligan61133
This may help : **LINK**

https://www.copper.org/resources/properties/microstructure/brasses.html

MichaelG.
7 April 2021 at 09:55 #538505
larry phelan 1
Participant
@larryphelan1
One of my jobs in a past life was to bend 1/4" round brass bar to 90deg. I heated it to red heat, let it cool then bent it.
7 April 2021 at 11:30 #538522
SillyOldDuffer
Moderator
@sillyoldduffer
As Michael says, much depends on the Brass. One of my old books says the properties of Brass alloys vary so much between extremes that they should be considered entirely different metals.

Brass formulated for casting (plumbing), doesn't anneal or bend well. Naval Brass is strong, not very malleable, and formulated for corrosion resistance. Brass with Lead in it doesn't anneal.

Cartridge Brass is specifically formulated to facilitate cold drawing and forming, which is ideal, but even it work hardens rapidly making it necessary to re-anneal at each of about nine stages from blank metal to finished cartridge. Plenty of advice on the web about annealing cartridges.

The important thing is not to overheat the Brass, but that temperature depends on the alloy, between 300 and 700°. Common brass anneal at about 450°, a little under dull red-heat in the dark (approx 500°C).

Don't know what alloy Jewellery brass is, except its soft and quenched in alcohol. Other brasses are left to air cool. Unfortunately the book I have to hand is vague about Brass, I'll look for another.

Dave
7 April 2021 at 11:38 #538524
JasonB
Moderator
@jasonb
When I have made drain cocks I used 303 stainless for the tapered part and easily bent the handle. Although the softer brasses bend well it's not easy to find small lengths in round section.
7 April 2021 at 14:33 #538542
Clive Brown 1
Participant
@clivebrown1
I've recently made a couple of drain-cock handles from drawn phosphor bronze rod, 3/16" dia. They bent through about 80 deg. with no sign of cracking, no annealing required. the dia. at the bend is .090" ish.

Edited By Clive Brown 1 on 07/04/2021 14:35:52
7 April 2021 at 21:18 #538604
Gareth Jones 9
Participant
@garethjones9
I've recently been annealing brass by using a 50/50 salt bath of Potassium Nitrate/Sodium Nitrite. Temp is controlled by use of a digital thermometer fitted with thermocouple. The salt is contained in a steel welded crucible and heated with a propane torch. Target annealing temp is something like 350 to 400 deg C.

I saw the set up described in Tubal Cain's Hardening, Tempering and Heat Treatment in the Workshop Practise series of books.

Gareth
7 April 2021 at 21:50 #538610
Versaboss
Participant
@versaboss
Well, that's a lot of stuff to digest! In the meantime I decided to go the easy route and am making new cocks from some stuff I have which is called (by the supplier, Bergeon) "Nickel". I believe it is not really pure nickel, but rather German Silver. I could bend a sample easily without breaking. But as I expected, getting the same angle again on the conical part was almost impossible. I think applying a dab of Timesaver will be necessary.

If the drain cocks (now I know the word, thanks) come out only half as good as these from Clive Brown, I will be happy!

Many thanks to all for your help,
Hans

Edited By Versaboss on 07/04/2021 21:50:54

Edited By Versaboss on 07/04/2021 21:51:16
13 April 2021 at 16:28 #539554
Versaboss
Participant
@versaboss
So, finally I did it. The cocks came out quite well I think (but far away from Clive's works). I did not check if they are tight, but anyway they are more a decoration on a small Stuart 10H.

Regards,
Hans
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