Single phase verses 3 phase motor

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Single phase verses 3 phase motor

This topic has 13 replies, 9 voices, and was last updated 10 February 2019 at 16:06 by Ian McVickers.

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9 February 2019 at 16:49 #26431
Philip Slater
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@philipslater86297
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9 February 2019 at 16:49 #395463
Philip Slater
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@philipslater86297
Hi all

Not sure if this is a good place to direct this question or not but here goes.

I'm fairly new to model engineering and am in the process of building up a Tom Senior M1 milling machine to which I've grafted a Rambaudi vertical head. I now need to fit a motor to the vertical head and was looking at fitting a 1 1/2 HP type. I was going to go for a 3 phase motor with a VFD but it occured to me I could make the job a bit cheaper and fit a single phase motor.

Does anybody have any thoughts on this? I would think the 3 phase motor would be smoother running and I like the idea of a soft start but I can save the cost of a VFD if I go single phase.
9 February 2019 at 17:01 #395464
Gary Wooding
Participant
@garywooding25363
I fitted VFDs to my Centec – smooth start and variable speed is far better than 1-phase.
9 February 2019 at 17:17 #395466
Brian Oldford
Participant
@brianoldford70365
IMHO good solid 3 phase motors of that capacity can often be picked up S/U for a song. With all the advantages of Soft Start, Infinitely Variable Speed and even Over-speed a VFD is a no-brainer.

I have them fitted to both my mill and lathe and wouldn't go back to single phase machines.
9 February 2019 at 17:53 #395473
duncan webster 1
Participant
@duncanwebster1
Wouldn't go back to single phase for all the tea in China. 1.5 HP single phase is going to be quite a lump as well, as Brian says you'll get S/H 3 phase if you search. Try Gavin Oseman who sometimes advertises on **LINK**. Never dealt with him but I know a man who has.
9 February 2019 at 18:23 #395477
Pete White
Participant
@petewhite15172
Double post, instead of edit, as below.

Edited By Pete White on 09/02/2019 18:27:47
9 February 2019 at 18:26 #395478
Pete White
Participant
@petewhite15172
I am lucky to have 3 phase in the workshop, never used a VDF, but do you need to ensure your motor is a six ends out so that you can make sure the voltage is correct, or already suitably wired?

There was single phase motor on my wood lathe when I bought it., it was hopeless with all the stopping and starting leading to over heating. Sorted by fitting a readily available cheap three phase option. Maybe the motor had a problem but convinced me that single phase is not for me.

Pete
9 February 2019 at 18:40 #395481
Mike Poole
Participant
@mikepoole82104
I would not hesitate to go with the three phase solution. Three phase motors do run more smoothly and the flexibility of the variable speed is sure to be found useful, in my opinion running a VFD at the extremes of its range is to be avoided as this compromises motor performance but it will still save a lot of belt changes and it is easy to find the best speed for the cutter and material being used. Even if I had a three phase supply I would still like a VFD as it enhances the usability of a machine.

Mike
9 February 2019 at 19:14 #395490
Philip Slater
Participant
@philipslater86297
Preety conclusive then!! I hadn't thought of running the VFD beyond 50hz but as suggested you would have to be a bit careful doing this. VFD and 3 phase motor here I come then.

Thanks for the rapid respones
9 February 2019 at 21:26 #395509
Brian Oldford
Participant
@brianoldford70365
Posted by Pete White on 09/02/2019 18:26:22:

I am lucky to have 3 phase in the workshop, never used a VDF, but do you need to ensure your motor is a six ends out so that you can make sure the voltage is correct, or already suitably wired?

There was single phase motor on my wood lathe when I bought it., it was hopeless with all the stopping and starting leading to over heating. Sorted by fitting a readily available cheap three phase option. Maybe the motor had a problem but convinced me that single phase is not for me.

Pete

Actually Pete, so long as the stator windings aren't epoxy potted, on a three post machine (415v only), if you're not afraid of a bit of motor open heart surgery, you can almost always get to the star point and open it up. Carefully noting the phase relationship you can rewire it to delta and they'll invariably run beautifully. Getting the phase relationship is crucial (don't ask!).
9 February 2019 at 21:43 #395513
Hollowpoint
Participant
@hollowpoint
Looks like you have already made your mind up but here's another vote for 3 phase. I converted my boxford a while back and it runs so much better now!
10 February 2019 at 10:25 #395569
Pete White
Participant
@petewhite15172
Posted by Brian Oldford on 09/02/2019 21:26:07:

Actually Pete, so long as the stator windings aren't epoxy potted, on a three post machine (415v only), if you're not afraid of a bit of motor open heart surgery, you can almost always get to the star point and open it up. Carefully noting the phase relationship you can rewire it to delta and they'll invariably run beautifully. Getting the phase relationship is crucial (don't ask!).

Thanks for that Brian, I have never stripped a motor but thought the star point would be like looking for hens teeth. I might have have a go. I am not afraid, I used to run motors and a mig welder, form an oil cooled welder and very big capacitors capacitors years ago. I think I am to afraid these days to do that again. lol

Pere

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10 February 2019 at 11:36 #395580
Sandgrounder
Participant
@sandgrounder
Posted by Brian Oldford on 09/02/2019 17:17:30:

IMHO good solid 3 phase motors of that capacity can often be picked up S/U for a song. With all the advantages of Soft Start, Infinitely Variable Speed and even Over-speed a VFD is a no-brainer.

I have them fitted to both my mill and lathe and wouldn't go back to single phase machines.

The same here, also fitted one to my Meddings Pillar drill which makes things so much easier when countersinking a hole after drilling, I don't have unscrew the pulley guard, loosen the motor, move the belt, c'sink the hole, loosen the moter, move the belt, lever it back to tension the belt and replace the guard.
10 February 2019 at 16:06 #395623
Ian McVickers
Participant
@ianmcvickers56553
Yes vfd and 3 phase motor all the way. Some wiring and a few buttons and switches and you can choose from fwd/rev. High/mid/low speed or fit a pot and vary the speed to your hearts content.
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