I've got both vertical and horizontal mills. I do 90% of my milling on the vertical mill (Bridgeport), along with 99% of my drilling. The horizontal mill was an impulse buy, bargain at £175. Some of it's characteristics, and uses are:

It's built like a brick out house, weighs nearly 2 tons and puts the Bridgeport to shame in terms of rigidity.

It's powerful (5hp) and can remove metal like you wouldn't believe.

Although much heavier than the Bridgeport the axis travels are somewhat smaller, about two-thirds or a little less.

I've used it mostly for gear cutting, spur gears, free hobbing of worm wheels and helical gears

Other uses are cutting splines on a crankshaft and hogging out large lumps of hot rolled steel much faster than the Bridgeport

I will be using it to machine the cylinder blocks for my traction engines, both to machine the block and bore the cylinders and liners, as a sort of poor mans norizontal borer

Although it was an impulse buy I've more than got my moneys worth, and I wouldn't be without it. The vertical mill simply isn't rigid enough to do the sort of things I can do on the horizontal mill. Like cutting large spur gears:

Or cleaning up hot rolled steel:

Andrew

Or keep the vertical and have a look at a shaper.

I'm fortunate in that i have all 3.

The vertical is prolly the most useful and used, the shaper easily the most enjoyable to use, but the horizontal does have some uses.

Edited By thaiguzzi on 10/12/2018 04:23:47

The machine the James has on epay looks as though it might be a universal mill – the table may swing as well – but I’m not sure of that. A definite bonus if it does swing.

The riser block on mine is much longer than the one on the ‘for sale’ machine, so I could fit the vertical head permanently and swivel it ( if needed) to use the horizontal drive, by moving the riser forwards. The vertical head might need tramming in every time, but that would make things easier on the lifting front!. Unfortunately, in its present position, there is insufficient headspace to (easily/quickly) change the drawbar – it is planned to move it onto its original stand, next year, when it will have enough space….

That Elliot looks like a an even more robust machine – probably half as heavy again as a Centec? Probably pricier, too!

An advantage of horizontal machines for production work is that they can be set up to do gang milling. If something needs two or three parallel grooves cut in it, they can all be done in one pass by mounting 3 cutters on the machine. This capability is even more important if you're making parts by the thousand.

My feeling is that horizontal mills are brilliant at what they're good at, but vertical mills are considerably more versatile. In a small general purpose workshop I guess versatility is more important than a rarely used hot performer. Must be nice to have space for both though, using the best tool for the job usually saves loads of time and effort!

Dave

I seem to recall that Chester used to offer a milling machine which was both vertical and horizontal. Not sure if they still sell them,but might be worth asking.

As has been said,for some types of work,they are in a class of their own,but for the small operator or shop ??

Plus,they do take up a lot of room.

As far as I know no far eastern hobby machine supplier makes a horizontal mill. So if you want to buy a new far eastern mill it has to be vertical; unsurprisingly there are then rather a lot of vertical mills about. So it's Hobson's choice, not a rational choice between horizontal and vertical.

Larry: Although my horizontal mill is much heavier, more powerful and way more rigid than the Bridgeport it actually occupies less space.

Andrew

Hi , that Elliot mill is very nice, and looks superior to my m1 senior due to the daylight distance ! ie from cutter to table!, however, anyone who has seen what Martin J cando on a Tom senior with regards to his steam wagon is nothing short remarkable! Van Norman is a sturdy machine , for a small workshop; very sturdy and suprise the people that use them…!

ps my senior needs a new belt,inside the column… anyone know where to get that wider section belt as a link type?,

pps i did skim out a car brake drums on a senior with it on a mounted faceplate! the toolpost on the mill bed! another alt way of getting a job done!

regards vic

The far eastern makers do make horizontals but they tend to be on the large side so you would have to go via their industrial resellers rather than the hobby related ones, these Weiss ones are where Warco and Chester stuff originates and Chester's industrial site shows some of their wares

I've found four potential 'hobby' horizontal mills; a couple of them are a bit 'agricultural' although more developed than some of the 'hobby' shapers of the past, but two of them look 'smart' enough for the UK market.

It would be interesting to see if enough demand could be demonstrated to encourage someone to import a batch of one?

For comparison the Pools Bench Miller. looks cute until you see how much it weighs!

Most of the small bench mounted horizontal mills lack a backgear, that and the small motor makes them suitable for slitting saws and not much else. Daveb

With respect to the Elliott and a few of the comments in this thread;

1. As suggested by Andrew, it wasn't a lot of money comparatively. Even after buying the two VFD's an MT3 ER25 chuck, an MT3 drill chuck and a few other bits and bobs it was still only around half the price of a new Warco VM with a similar sized table (well less than half if you want the Warco power feed as well). But granted it is a fair bit heavier, the column / base and main motor gave a 750kg trailer a run for its money and with the vertical head, knee and table in the back of the LR, it knew it was there!

2. Size; The footprint is only about the same as a larger Warco VM with similar size table. It does need a bit more room around it though as you need space behind to open the rear belt cover and clearance on a wall to be able to push the horizontal over arm back. Height wise for draw bolt removal again not much more than a large Warco.

3. As mentioned by someone the horizontal spindle does not necessarily need a long arbor and over arm support. I have a boring and facing head which fits both spindles (mine are both MT3), I have a short MT3 arbor set up as a boring bar and my 2" face mill being also MT3 fits both spindles. The latter saved a lot of work on the cylinder casting which was set saddle down on the table, I was then able to machine the top with the face mill and the regulator face (with an end mill) and drill all the stud holes in the top. Then with the cylinder still clamped to the table put the face mill in the horizontal spindle and machine the valve chest face. So at one setting I was able to get two datum faces machined exactly at right angles.

Its horses for courses, it's an old machine (pretty well as old as me) and consequently it has some wear, not bad but it's not new and has no warranty! I had to rebuild the power feed Jack shaft as the bush and shaft at the pulley end were goosed (that's a case of make em yourself – you can't call the dealer and order them!). For me, considering my project is a half size engine it's an ideal bit of kit. When I get back to 5" gauge loco's I am sure it will be just as useful.

Tom Seniors and Centecs are just as versatile albeit slightly smaller and a little lighter with the vertical heads and Martin has done some amazing stuff on his, the steering worm was a work of art! My point really was why go for either a H or V when you can have the best of both worlds and as Neil says these older combination machines do have real usability. Before the Elliott came to me I was looking at the large Warco, I am just very pleased now I didn't jump that way, not that there is anything wrong with the Warco but the old lady does offer better options and rigidity.

Paul.

I've always liked those Elliot Junior Omnimills.

The only thing putting me off was the lack of a quill, or when they did have a quill, no fine feed.