3 phase – radio puzzle

3 phase – radio puzzle

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Viewing 25 posts - 1 through 25 (of 41 total)
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  • #421598
    Ron Laden
    Participant
      @ronladen17547

      The Warco 918 lathe I have recently bought is 3 phase with a IMO Jaguar Cub VFD and all is well. However the wife pointed out yesterday that when I run the lathe her kitchen radio (battery operated) stops working. I checked it out and she is correct and yet the workshop radio again battery powered and only 5 feet from the lathe has no problems.

      Any ideas guys..?

      #19416
      Ron Laden
      Participant
        @ronladen17547
        #421600
        Journeyman
        Participant
          @journeyman

          For a non-technical solution you could try swapping the radios over. You probably can't hear the workshop one with the lathe running anyway. Sounds like the filter in the VFD might be faulty.

          John

          #421602
          Bob Brown 1
          Participant
            @bobbrown1

            I fitted a separate filter to VDF 3 phase mill power supply

            dscf0078.jpg

            #421609
            Ron Laden
            Participant
              @ronladen17547

              Just checked again and the kitchen radio doesnt actually cut off but it makes an awful noise.

              John, changed the radios over and still the same, the kitchen radio location is the problem, the workshop one is fine.

              #421610
              Stuart Bridger
              Participant
                @stuartbridger82290

                +1 on the EMC filter. I fitted one when I did my lathe conversion and have never had any issues.
                Only thing to watch out for is additional earth leakage, which may trip your RCD.

                #421612
                Ron Laden
                Participant
                  @ronladen17547

                  Thanks guys, so it sounds like a filter problem, but why the kitchen radio which is 30 feet away and not the workshop one which is only 5 feet from the lathe, dont understand that..?

                  #421614
                  Samsaranda
                  Participant
                    @samsaranda

                    Is the kitchen radio in close proximity to house wiring, could be that the interference from the inverter is causing a field effect around the house wiring, try moving the radio away from any wiring and see if that makes any difference. My IPhone chargers can cause interference if the wire runs close to a radio, I have an alarm clock/radio on my bedside cabinet and I charge my IPhone on there as well, have to make sure that the charger cable is not near the radio otherwise it causes interference.

                    Dave W

                    #421621
                    Bazyle
                    Participant
                      @bazyle

                      Are you tuning to the same station in each location?

                      #421623
                      Ron Laden
                      Participant
                        @ronladen17547
                        Posted by Bazyle on 30/07/2019 10:25:41:

                        Are you tuning to the same station in each location?

                        Yes local bbc radio Devon on all of them, tried two bedroom radios and they are fine.

                        #421627
                        Jon Freeman 2
                        Participant
                          @jonfreeman2

                          Is this Radio Devon on medium wave or fm showing the problem?

                          #421628
                          Geoff Theasby
                          Participant
                            @geofftheasby

                            No one has mentioned or asked the frequencies or bands in use by these radios. Medium wave, VHF/FM, DAB? If they are set to different bands, it is quite likely that one will be interfered with but not the other, even if listening to the same station, Radio Devon in this case.

                            #421629
                            Ron Laden
                            Participant
                              @ronladen17547
                              Posted by Jon Freeman 2 on 30/07/2019 10:46:04:

                              Is this Radio Devon on medium wave or fm showing the problem?

                              A problem on both MW and FM

                              #421634
                              Jon Freeman 2
                              Participant
                                @jonfreeman2

                                Depending on your location relative to the fm transmitter your reception could be very variable even at different points around your property (multipath reception). Devon wasn't designed for good fm reception, the terrain is too lumpy (same problem just up the road in W Somerset!). As for MW, I don't have the info to hand but the MW transmitter is probably relatively flea-powered.

                                Your installation looks good, IMO is a good pedigree piece of kit, I'm not inclined to think there's anything wrong. All VFDs will produce interference, reduced but not eliminated by built in filters. It's quite likely your kit is all 'in spec' but your BBC signals are weak at your location.

                                Try a different station perhaps.

                                #421635
                                David Jupp
                                Participant
                                  @davidjupp51506

                                  Some VFDs have built in RFI filters, but these are typically only rated for 'industrial use' (where there might be more tolerance of some noise on the mains). Some of these filters can be switched out of circuit !

                                  If you fit an input filter, it should be on the metal backplane that the VFD is mounted to for best performance (I've seen them located using Velcro strips !).

                                  Earth connections and screen connections (not the same thing) are important. Screen on power connections should be bonded directly to the metal backplane.

                                  Metal cabinet door should be bonded to cabinet body/backplane.

                                  There is lots of good information on line – also lots of people contradicting that good advice. The installation manual for the specific VFD can often be a very good source of advice.

                                  #421638
                                  Geoff Theasby
                                  Participant
                                    @geofftheasby

                                    Radio Devon is on six VHF channels in the area, two MW freq's, DAB Multiplex 10C (Between 174-240 MHz) Freeview Ch. 720, and iPlayer. Mix and match these for best reception on each radio.

                                    #421639
                                    not done it yet
                                    Participant
                                      @notdoneityet

                                      First thing might be to check whether it is only while the motor is running or while the VFD is switched on. The RFI is likely emitted from the motor feed cable. Is this screened cable? Length of the cable can also be an important factor.

                                      Needs sorting if you have neighbours who don’t yet know why their radio reception is a bit ‘iffy’ on occasions.

                                      #421643
                                      Ron Laden
                                      Participant
                                        @ronladen17547
                                        Posted by not done it yet on 30/07/2019 11:25:55:

                                        First thing might be to check whether it is only while the motor is running or while the VFD is switched on. The RFI is likely emitted from the motor feed cable. Is this screened cable? Length of the cable can also be an important factor.

                                        Needs sorting if you have neighbours who don’t yet know why their radio reception is a bit ‘iffy’ on occasions.

                                        Only when the motor is running, motor cable 1.5 mtrs and would need to remove a cover to check if its screened

                                        #421649
                                        David Jupp
                                        Participant
                                          @davidjupp51506

                                          Could just as easily be conducted RFI back into the mains – in fact that is more likely given Ron's previous comments.

                                          #421653
                                          Robert Atkinson 2
                                          Participant
                                            @robertatkinson2

                                            It is likely differential mode conducted interference from the VFD causing the issue. You should fit a suitable filter on the inlet. Most VFD instructions say one is required.
                                            The current from differential interference flows in opposite directions on the two conductors.(Live and neutral). Where these are close together and physically balanced the fields cancel and no signal is radiated. This is likely the case near the VFD hence no interference near it. The house wiring on the other hand is less likely to be balanced especially lighting wiring. Un-balanced or separated conductors act as an antenna so when the currents reach the house wiring they radiate and cause interference.

                                            All VFDs should be in a swarf and splash proof (at least IP34, preferably IP 45 or better) earthed metal box with appropriate mains switching, fuse, filter, ventilation or space for cooling and cable glands or connectors.

                                            Robert G8RPI.

                                            #421655
                                            Howard Lewis
                                            Participant
                                              @howardlewis46836

                                              I managed to get hold of a secondhand double 13 anp socket with built in RFI filter. The VFD is always fed through that. No problems with either Radio or TV.

                                              The baby alarm installed to hear the front door bell makes a hissing noise, although the bell, or even unlocking the front door is easily audible. Almost like an electronic version of tinnitus!

                                              My 2p is to install a RFI in the feed to the VFD.

                                              Howard

                                              #421658
                                              ronan walsh
                                              Participant
                                                @ronanwalsh98054

                                                I have a old shortwave receiver in the shed, normally on the 20 meter amateur band. I noticed the other day when i powered up the vfd on the mill, it sent the receiver haywire, couldn't hear a thing.

                                                #421660
                                                Dave Halford
                                                Participant
                                                  @davehalford22513

                                                  The spec should be written on the cable sheath.

                                                  My compressor has a screened power lead with a clear sheath so you can see the braided shield.

                                                  #421681
                                                  Ron Laden
                                                  Participant
                                                    @ronladen17547

                                                    So it is sounding like I need a filter at the inlet but not knowing what type/spec of filter I need I would appreciate some guidance at what I should be looking for.

                                                    Thanks

                                                    Ron

                                                    #421694
                                                    Geoff Theasby
                                                    Participant
                                                      @geofftheasby

                                                      Look for IEC (International Electrotechnical Commission) EMI (Electro-Magnetic Interference) power line filters, about £10, they plug in, you don't need to open them up.

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