Machines are cheap.

Advert

New Replies

Report Bug

Help/FAQs

Machines are cheap.

This topic has 26 replies, 16 voices, and was last updated 12 October 2016 at 21:17 by Nick_G.

Viewing 25 posts - 1 through 25 (of 27 total)

1 2 →

Author

Posts
9 October 2016 at 12:23 #18217
Nick_G
Participant
@nick_g
Advert

9 October 2016 at 12:23 #260128
Nick_G
Participant
@nick_g
.

Lathes and mills etc are cheap.!!! – Well they ain't really they are very often a considerable purchase.

The point I am trying to make is relative to the rest of the kit in ones workshop. I have found it's the tooling that costs the money. Yes individually they may be much less than the purchase of a machine tool but combined together they add up.

I know that I have spent far in excess on tooling than I did buying the original machines and I have only been doing this for 2 1/2 years. And there is much I would 'like' to add at a future date if finances should ever allow.

I dare not add up the cost of the following. (not that it matters anyway) But machines may look handsome in our workshop (to us) but are useless without the tooling. Yes the cost is spread over a period of time but should be a considered factor when starting out.

Lets start with :-

Lathe cutting tools, normal and boring bars etc.
Different chucks, faceplates etc.
Live centers (any supplied with machine will be too big for most ME work)
Calipers, angle gauges, bore gauges, height gauges etc.
Tailstock tooling, chucks, die holders etc.
Reamers
Countless drill bits, taps etc.
DRO's (a luxury)
QTP and extra holders (also a luxury)
Vices
Clamps of various kinds
Rotary table
Collet holders and collets
V and 321 blocks etc
Surface table
Milling cutters
Boring head
A plethora of items of £5 – 20 that add up.
Quite a lot of the above there needs to be duplicates of. (diff types etc)

There will be much, much more if I went round the workshop with a notepad and made an itinerary. But I have better things to do and there is no point anyway.

If I had to make a 'guesstimate' and it is a guesstimate and nothing more, I would say that the ratio of the cost of the machines to tooling would be 3:1 with the tooling on the fat side. That ratio over time I think will only increase.

So what do others think their machine to tooling ratio would be.? – Don't give a monetary figure as that 'could' seem like bragging rights.! Just a ratio.

Just curious, Nick

Edited By Nick_G on 09/10/2016 12:25:21
9 October 2016 at 13:07 #260134
SillyOldDuffer
Moderator
@sillyoldduffer
Difficult to keep track as I've been adding to my workshop for years. A quick guesstimate came out at just over 2:1 for me, but I've forgotten about broken taps, drills and consumables etc . Also, not including materials, which can also add up.

Some questions are best left unanswered!

Dave
9 October 2016 at 13:49 #260144
IanT
Participant
@iant
Very difficult to work out in my case Nick – as although I've purchase all my 'machines' (and none were expensive) – quite a lot of my small tooling has come to me via Christmas & Birthday presents from sons and wife (I give them "suggestions" ) . This is much better than books I will never read or clothes I won't like. I have probably also purchased quite a few bits at car boots and shows but over 20 odd years you can't really keep count.

Maybe the real cost of tooling I can calculate as the cost of the socks, ties and jumpers that I now have to buy for myself…….

Regards,

IanT

Edited By IanT on 09/10/2016 13:49:38
9 October 2016 at 13:49 #260145
Speedy Builder5
Participant
@speedybuilder5
Interesting, I made a rough inventory item/cost new/cost secondhand and showed it to my insurers to see if I needed any special insurance, contents etc. They weren't particularly interested and just said make sure the house and the workshop don't burn down at the same time !! In which case I was covered.
BobH
9 October 2016 at 13:51 #260147
Carl Wilson 4
Participant
@carlwilson4
I reckon at a rough guess I have double the value of tooling compared to the cost of my lathe and mill.

Why is it though, no matter how much I spend on tools, I just never seem to have that one thing that'll just do the job for me right away?…
9 October 2016 at 14:48 #260154
Nick_G
Participant
@nick_g
Posted by Carl Wilson 4 on 09/10/2016 13:51:25:

Why is it though, no matter how much I spend on tools, I just never seem to have that one thing that'll just do the job for me right away?…

.

It's a 'guy thing' – Some women do exactly the same except with shoes and bags.

Nick
9 October 2016 at 14:56 #260155
MW
Participant
@mw27036
Well a machine is a tool, so i guess were simply distinguishing the periferal items from that.

They are expensive things to keep and maintain, and i certainly couldn't do it again if i wanted, so i'm happy with what i have, and i'll make do with that.

I can say though that the value of what i've then sold on, from the things i've made with the lathe, means the machine quite literally paid for itself.

I also agree with the 3:1 ratio… or maybe 2ish.

I wouldn't really think about it in terms of waste though, i mean, what else would i spend my pennies on? Money is important but you "can't take it with you" as they say, so i might as well do something with it rather than sitting on some nice decimals, money doesn't even have value in paper or metal anymore! crazy world.

Michael W

Edited By Michael Walters on 09/10/2016 15:03:29
9 October 2016 at 15:29 #260156
Matthew Reed
Participant
@matthewreed92137
3:1 propbably, although inflation distorts the actual figures. I would be more worried about the cost of the machines and tools we buy compared to the jobs we ask of them. Just spent a reasonable sum buying and equipping a mill becuase a lathe on its own didn't cut it (literally), but the job that triggered this is really small- replacement drag beam for a16mm loco. I could do it by hand, and did, although not to the standard I wanted. Of course this is a life style statement (= new hobby, if you over 50), but if add up the hours setting up the mill, fitting DROs, etc probably 30-40 hours.

I will be making a small bracket on the mill to hold a gate open tonight. My wife is impressed ( I think….) that I can now make this because "I have the technology" but I could have got something from B&Q for a quid or two!
9 October 2016 at 15:34 #260157
Nick Hulme
Participant
@nickhulme30114
Posted by Carl Wilson 4 on 09/10/2016 13:51:25:

Why is it though, no matter how much I spend on tools, I just never seem to have that one thing that'll just do the job for me right away?…

When you've been there (and then shopping) often enough you'll get to the point where you have 99%+ of what you need

I'd have to guess at a 3+:1 ratio, that doesn't include used consumables but does include some stock of new consumables

– Nick

Edited By Nick Hulme on 09/10/2016 15:34:47
9 October 2016 at 15:55 #260161
mechman48
Participant
@mechman48
I've just had a look through my inventory… made up after some low life broke into my garage conversion back in 2014… for insurances purposes; & my estimation is at least in a ratio of 3:1 if not more. I agree with Michael W …

'They are expensive things to keep and maintain, and I certainly couldn't do it again if I wanted, so I'm happy with what I have, and I'll make do with that'.

Any thing else that I would 'like to have' is/has been a 'suggestion' to family members for Xmas /Birthdays where I get financial contributions, so I buy the item & receive said items wrapped up as prezzies at the appropriate time,

George.
9 October 2016 at 16:05 #260162
Nick_G
Participant
@nick_g
Posted by Michael Walters on 09/10/2016 14:56:30:

I wouldn't really think about it in terms of waste though, i mean, what else would i spend my pennies on?

.

I agree, we all have different values.

There is a mate of mine who thinks that my various bits of metal in my workshop are a waste of money. – But this is a guy that spends a couple of hundred quid a week in pubs and bars and a similar amount on gambling. That's 'his' hobby and he can afford to do it. But I consider that a waste. ……. He obviously doesn't.!

As I said this was not meant to be about monetary value (although I suppose it is by default) It was pure curiosity of the ratio between the 2. But a factor that is probably overlooked (as I did) by beginners. I was also not thinking of factoring in material stocks.

This ratio could also be easily distorted. e.g. if someone chose to purchase a fully factory reconditioned Hardinge or Schaublin lathe etc that would leave an awful lot of money to be spent to get a 3:1 ratio. Likewise but not as much if they purchased one of the few (supposedly) new Myfords that are around.

Nick

Edited By Nick_G on 09/10/2016 16:19:31
9 October 2016 at 16:35 #260167
steamdave
Participant
@steamdave
Posted by mechman48 on 09/10/2016 15:55:37:

'They are expensive things to keep and maintain, and I certainly couldn't do it again if I wanted, so I'm happy with what I have, and I'll make do with that'.

George.

So are wives. Or maybe that should be A wife in the western world.

Dave
The Emerald Isle
9 October 2016 at 16:42 #260172
NJH
Participant
@njh
Dave – I imagine YOUR wife doesn't have access to your computer……………….

Norman
9 October 2016 at 17:02 #260176
NJH
Participant
@njh
Nick

I think it's best not to think too closely about the cost of hobbies…. I have been interested in photography for many years and I don't know how much I've spent there. I've taken lots of shots, processed film and printed it in darkrooms that I have built and equipped, converted to digital – buying s/w for the computer and a succession of printers ( and stocks of expensive paper & ink ) to present the results. All this alongside a nice comfortable workshop when "making stuff" calls for attention. How much have I spent on this lot? I don't know and don't want to tot it all up !

I guess I could have forgone all this stuff and spent the dosh on booze and foreign holidays instead – but then what would I do for the rest of the year? I don't smoke and I don't drink (anymore!) so one needs ones little pleasures. My wife encourages me in my enthusiasms but then her hobbies are knitting, sewing, patchwork, tapestry and ( thank goodness!) cooking! I am quite happy to support and encourage her in her interests!

Norman
9 October 2016 at 17:17 #260177
Tony Simons
Participant
@tonysimons69671
My big worry is my wife sells my kit for what I told her I paid for it!
9 October 2016 at 17:24 #260180
IanT
Participant
@iant
My big worry is that all my 'Treasures' in the Shed will end up at the tip one day…

Regards,

IanT
9 October 2016 at 17:50 #260184
not done it yet
Participant
@notdoneityet
Vices should not be included

The whole hobby might be a vice, but it should be vise in the list, shirley?
9 October 2016 at 17:52 #260186
not done it yet
Participant
@notdoneityet
Oops, duplicate!

Added: My machines are second hand, so the tooling:machine cost ratio is high!

Edited By not done it yet on 09/10/2016 17:56:04
9 October 2016 at 17:56 #260187
MW
Participant
@mw27036
Posted by not done it yet on 09/10/2016 17:50:30:

Vices should not be included

The whole hobby might be a vice, but it should be vise in the list, shirley?

As they say, N.D.I.Y, what happens in the workshop stays in the workshop.

I think it's american english trying to put us down on the spell checker as usual.

The meaning remains interchangeable in english with the same letter, because we have the little pointer known as context to help us judge which vice it is, it's all clever stuff!

Michael W
9 October 2016 at 17:58 #260188
SillyOldDuffer
Moderator
@sillyoldduffer
Posted by not done it yet on 09/10/2016 17:50:30:

Vices should not be included

The whole hobby might be a vice, but it should be vise in the list, shirley?

No, my main vice is a vice.

Vise is more polite but beware, it may be an Americanism.

Edit: Michael got in first.

Cheers,

Dave

Edited By SillyOldDuffer on 09/10/2016 17:59:15
9 October 2016 at 18:05 #260189
Nigel Bennett
Participant
@nigelbennett69913
Going back to the OP, it can be a lot more than 3:1. I bought a second, larger lathe very cheaply, but despite already having a well-equipped Super 7, I needed to spend on a VFD (as it was 3 phase) and a lot of tooling as the QCTP was bigger and the tailstock is 3MT. Rather than swapping lathe tools between the toolholders, I needed to duplicate lathe tools as well. Then there were all the chucks I needed. Having a DRO on the S7 meant that I had to buy a second DRO… As I acquired a 5C collet chuck for a ridiculous price (a nice round amount…) I also "needed" some 5C collets… so maybe more like 8:1 in my case.

I have to say that the original intention was to flog the S7 and acquire a larger lathe and effectively make a profit on the deal. But I found I didn't want to get rid of the S7, especially when I discovered both lathes would just go in my shed…and I have a very understanding wife.

And it's the Midlands exhibition next week… so maybe 9:1 then…
9 October 2016 at 18:12 #260191
MW
Participant
@mw27036
Posted by Nigel Bennett on 09/10/2016 18:05:50:

I have to say that the original intention was to flog the S7 and acquire a larger lathe and effectively make a profit on the deal. But I found I didn't want to get rid of the S7, especially when I discovered both lathes would just go in my shed…and I have a very understanding wife.

And it's the Midlands exhibition next week… so maybe 9:1 then…

Sounds like to me the journey became more important than the destination in the end. I've got this little sherline lathe that i started out with, and once i got the bigger boy i wanted to do it up nicely and sell it, but i can't seem to part with it, i'm too charmed by it. I may never do any more work on it but it's such a nice thing.

If i ever have any descendants then maybe i'll give them the sherline if i think they're going to treat it right. I'm sure they would but you never know, might not end up as thoughtful as me! .

Michael W
9 October 2016 at 18:31 #260193
Mick Henshall
Participant
@mickhenshall99321
I like to make as many tools/accessories as I can for my lathe/mill, the price of a lot of stuff I think is way over the top, a woodworking example is a Router which can be bought relatively cheaply then you have to pay through the nose for the cutters, I just don't see how some prices are justified but it is how it is I suppose

Regards Mick
10 October 2016 at 19:11 #260323
not done it yet
Participant
@notdoneityet
Referring back to the u-toob by Keith Rucker (machinerydotorg), from where this thread title was plucked, I presume, Dale Derry immediately indicated he had bought his Clausing lathe for $750 and the extras cost him $300.

But where do you draw the line? Are Dale's measuring, cutting, sharpening machines, etc regarded as extra 'tools' or more machines? It would seem that all his 4 lathes and 2 mills were second hand bargains! Hence his comment, on the vid, that 'machines are cheap'.
Author

Posts