First Lathe

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First Lathe

This topic has 30 replies, 13 voices, and was last updated 9 August 2019 at 13:05 by JasonB.

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6 August 2019 at 17:45 #422923
Nathan Turner 1
Participant
@nathanturner1
Hello everyone i'm currently searching for my first lathe, for a variety of work, some stationary engines, steel tooling for the shop and some smaller mechanical work. I already have a milling machine, tool and cutter grinder plus some other bits and pieces that would make me semi-comfortable to buy used and repair things. The space i have available is roughly 170cm L x 80cm W. My wishlist currently is:

Camlock chuck
metric
fairly complete threadcutting gearbox
around 300kg max (can go higher this is mainly incase i want to sell or move the lathe and not restrict potential buyers)
good size spindle bore, perhaps 38mm
10×20 inch capacity minimum, the swing is more important to me
ideally quiet running (am quite happy to fit vfd and motor but if theres a model already with it then that's a plus)
would like to spend around £3k at most but would spend more if there are much better alternatives out there.

If i look at new machines that fit the bill i can only see the chester crusader and warco gh 1236 which are pretty big for me (warco have sold all the next batch of 1230) and emvio engineering has the eml-290 which has the inverter and d1-4 taper at a minimum of £2.2k.

With used machines i'm really not knowledgeable but the Emco maximat super 11 cd seems to fit the bill perfectly and then i've not seen much else, ideas ?

thanks in advance for any replies

Edited By Nathan Turner 1 on 06/08/2019 17:46:56
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6 August 2019 at 17:45 #13607
Nathan Turner 1
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@nathanturner1
6 August 2019 at 17:59 #422927
old mart
Participant
@oldmart
That EML290 looks good, I see that a DRO is optional, which may well be within your budget.
6 August 2019 at 18:26 #422931
JasonB
Moderator
@jasonb
That does not really have a screwcutting gearbox.

It is the same as the Warco etc 280 & 290 models where you get a simple 1:2, 1:1. 2:1 gearbox that gives 3 pitches per change wheel setup eg if you set for 1mm pitch you can also get 0.5mm and 2mm without changing anything. You will have to change the gear train each time you want to go back to a fine feed.

I think SPG also did it at one time with the camlock spindle.
6 August 2019 at 18:27 #422932
Thor 🇳🇴
Participant
@thor
Hi Nathan,

I have an older 290 lathe with 38mm spindle bore and MT3 tailstock. It has served me well for 6 years. The EML290 you mention look very similar to mine except for the Camlock spindle nose (and the paintwork of course). A Camlock spindle nose was on my wishlist but I wasn't able to find one where I live.

Thor
6 August 2019 at 18:41 #422935
Nathan Turner 1
Participant
@nathanturner1
Thankyou for the replies. JasonB, it's one thing that puts me off it, i was hoping there was perhaps something like the emco maximat 11 that another company had made that i could search for used.

Thor, i think they seem to be pretty similar. I actually looked at the warco 280 as the 290 seems to be fairly pricey from them at the moment but i'd like the camlock. What kind of work have you mainly done with it ?

old mart, i forgot to add a DRO to the list, i wouldnt be without one on my gh universal mill from warco. I'll probably fit my own as the extra markup for prefitting seems to be quite high and it was fairly straightforward on the mill

Edited By Nathan Turner 1 on 06/08/2019 18:55:34
6 August 2019 at 19:04 #422940
Former Member
Participant
@formermember32069
[This posting has been removed]
6 August 2019 at 19:07 #422941
JasonB
Moderator
@jasonb
There is a Super 11 CD in the classifieds at the moment
6 August 2019 at 19:21 #422943
Nathan Turner 1
Participant
@nathanturner1
Thanks Barrie the wabeco does look very good i think the price is just a bit too far out of my range. JasonB i've actually contacted him and he's sold it unfortunately but wasnt aware of how to remove the ad, i'm kicking myself for not seeing it quick enough so i'll haveto keep searching

Barrie ive found three Maximat V10P lathes on ebay just now, i'll haveto read up on how they compare to the 11. the most expensive actually looks in ok condition but is too far for me to visit without buying blind. There is one in Nottingham which i could see, they want £1200 for it, looks well used so i'm unsure but could be worth considering, thanks

Edited By Nathan Turner 1 on 06/08/2019 19:53:48
6 August 2019 at 20:22 #422950
Former Member
Participant
@formermember32069
[This posting has been removed]
6 August 2019 at 20:45 #422955
David Standing 1
Participant
@davidstanding1
If you are looking at Warco, why haven't you mentioned the GH1322?

Bigger swing than the two you mentioned, smaller footprint, and if you want a metric 3 phase one, and you say you can fit a VFD, it has the benefit of currently being £650 off!
6 August 2019 at 22:03 #422967
Nathan Turner 1
Participant
@nathanturner1
Hi David, i had seen this and completely forgotten about it. It's on the heavy side but is in stock at least plus the gap bed could be useful for future use. With a dro vfd and 3 phase 240v motor it might come in a bit above my target price but it has a lot going for it. Does anyone on the forum have this model to share their experience ?
7 August 2019 at 17:45 #423097
Thor 🇳🇴
Participant
@thor
Posted by Nathan Turner 1 on 06/08/2019 18:41:49:

Thor, i think they seem to be pretty similar. I actually looked at the warco 280 as the 290 seems to be fairly pricey from them at the moment but i'd like the camlock. What kind of work have you mainly done with it ?

Edited By Nathan Turner 1 on 06/08/2019 18:55:34

I have turned small steam engines, 150mm dia. steel backplates, hard steel bars, light alloy and brass, it works well for the work I do. If you can get an Emco 11 in good condition, buy it.

Thor
7 August 2019 at 18:02 #423101
Old School
Participant
@oldschool
What about a Myford 254S the metric ones are cheaper than the imperial ones. Only secondhand machines now. Very happy with mine.
7 August 2019 at 18:19 #423106
Neil Wyatt
Moderator
@neilwyatt
Posted by Nathan Turner 1 on 06/08/2019 19:21:37:

. JasonB i've actually contacted him and he's sold it unfortunately but wasnt aware of how to remove the ad,

For future reference, when you are logged in, go to the 'more for sale ads' page and click 'manage my ads'.

Neil
7 August 2019 at 21:11 #423128
David Standing 1
Participant
@davidstanding1
Posted by Old School on 07/08/2019 18:02:28:

What about a Myford 254S the metric ones are cheaper than the imperial ones. Only secondhand machines now. Very happy with mine.

Nathan's brief included 'good sized spindle bore, perhaps 38mm'. A 254S misses that brief by 12mm
8 August 2019 at 07:55 #423148
Former Member
Participant
@formermember32069
[This posting has been removed]
8 August 2019 at 08:28 #423150
not done it yet
Participant
@notdoneityet
BL,

Also misses that 10” minimum swing. How many 254 machines had camlok spindles? Not many, I would have guessed, but as always I may be wrong!

If that lathe were to be an option, a good Raglan 5” might be an alternative (but only with a L-100 spindle nose?). About as rare, I would think! But a good Raglan 5” might cost a third, or less, than a 254!

Making tight specifications, as a requirement, invites an expensive price tag – but it is only a ‘wish list’, after all.
8 August 2019 at 09:08 #423152
SillyOldDuffer
Moderator
@sillyoldduffer
Posted by Barrie Lever on 08/08/2019 07:55:03:

Posted by David Standing 1 on 07/08/2019 21:11:49:

Posted by Old School on 07/08/2019 18:02:28:

What about a Myford 254S the metric ones are cheaper than the imperial ones. Only secondhand machines now. Very happy with mine.

Nathan's brief included 'good sized spindle bore, perhaps 38mm'. A 254S misses that brief by 12mm

I would allow slip on the 38mm requirement to be the owner of a Myford 254S, ways can be found to get around that requirement, unless it was an everyday occurrence.

B.

Many moons ago when people paid me to evaluate competitive bids, before issuing tenders we carefully categorised Requirements as either Mandatory and Desirable. Failure to meet a Mandatory would be enough to reject a bid no matter how good it was otherwise.

Treatment of Desirable requirements was more complicated in that they were scored and weighted to establish objectively just how important they actually were relative to each other. By comparing the total weighted scores, it was possible to identify which bid best met the requirement. The system reduces personal bias and – because it is objective – the decision can be defended if challenged.

Nathan's question described his requirements as a 'wishlist', that is everything is desirable. As so much is up for grabs, it's tricky for the forum to advise because we can't tell what matters or not. Possibly before choosing a lathe, Nathan needs help refining his list of requirements. (Apologies to Nathan if he knows exactly what he wants and why!)

It's worth putting a bit of thought into requirements because getting them wrong can be wasteful. For example, if Nathan has a mandatory requirement for a 38mm spindle bore, then the excellent Myford 254S is not for him. On the other hand, if 38mm is a convenience feature, then it can be scored relative to other convenience features.

Apart from spindle bore the other difficult requirement in Nathan's wish-list is that Camlock chuck. As a mandatory requirement camlock severely restricts Nathan's choice of lathe. No problem with wanting one if Nathan will be constantly changing chucks, but a seriously bad idea if the Camlock feature is lightly used. It's because specifying camlock eliminates many good alternatives, cheaper and/or better lathes, which is undesirable because Nathan has restrictions on size, weight, swing and budget as well.

Dave
8 August 2019 at 09:22 #423156
Former Member
Participant
@formermember32069
[This posting has been removed]
8 August 2019 at 10:03 #423160
Hollowpoint
Participant
@hollowpoint
Personally I would go secondhand. Your budget gets you into Harrison, Colchester, Boxford territory and while you might not get every feature you want the overall quality of the lathe will be superior. I can say that as someone who has owned both British and Chinese lathes.
8 August 2019 at 10:06 #423162
not done it yet
Participant
@notdoneityet
Well set out Dave. About my thoughts, above. I just added a cheaper, probably better alternative to the 254. Larger swing (at least an extra 1/4”, at 10 1/4” +. Note that myford quote swing as more than twice centre height), slightly larger spindle bore, possible (but not so likely) metric lead screw, larger motor and an extra 4” between centres among other similarities.

Add a 3 phase motor with VFD, plus DROs and most lathes are basically ‘metricated”. Certainly far better value than any 254 sale items I have seen, but it doesn’t appear that Nathan wants to save dosh (looking at the ‘wish list’ and budget) or looking at specs quite as low as these?
8 August 2019 at 12:16 #423174
Howard Lewis
Participant
@howardlewis46836
If you are prepared to look at useed machines of far eastern origin, a used Warco BH600, Chester Craftsman, EngineersToolRoom BL12-24 would tick most of the boxes in your wish list. They will swing 12" over the bed, 18" in the gap, have hardened bedways, and 38mm bore Mandrel, and PCF . The Norton Gearbox provides 40 possibilities, and can be used to cut Imperial or Metric threads. They weigh 300 Kg, and should come with 3 and 4 jaw chucks, Faceplate and steadies. The chucks are screw on, but are retained by dogs, for reverse running. With back Gear, 12 speeds are available. A VFD would make one even more versatile.

No doubt their GH sucessors have similar specs.

If you want new, Don't know the spec, but would a Seig SC6 meet your requirements? Possible supplier? Axminster?.

Howard

PS

Make allowance in your budget for tooling and measuring equipment!

Edited By Howard Lewis on 08/08/2019 12:17:34
8 August 2019 at 18:06 #423190
Michael Gilligan
Participant
@michaelgilligan61133
Posted by not done it yet on 08/08/2019 10:06:34:

…

Note that myford quote swing as more than twice centre height),

…

.

Which is not unreasonable

It should be true of many lathes [depending upon the bed profile]

MichaelG.
8 August 2019 at 18:42 #423194
not done it yet
Participant
@notdoneityet
Posted by Michael Gilligan on 08/08/2019 18:06:44:

Posted by not done it yet on 08/08/2019 10:06:34:

…

Note that myford quote swing as more than twice centre height),

…

.

Which is not unreasonable

It should be true of many lathes [depending upon the bed profile]

MichaelG.

Are all the Chinese mini lathes the same? I only mentioned it because Raglan only quoted centre height (already over 5&rdquo and not total swing available. The instruction manual indicates 3 3/8th” gap between the shears. The swing could obviously be calculated from that but I thought it unnecessary. Still do.
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