Workshop in this weather..?

[Peter G. ShawParticipant @peterg-shaw75338]

Born in 1943 so don't remember 1947 although my parents did have some photos of it. Do remember another winter a few years later which seemed to last for weeks on end – it wasn't the 62/63 winter – when we used to frequently go sledging. I suspect I must have been around 9 or 10 so 1952 or 1953. 8 seems a bit young to be allowed out sledging, but I do have a suspicion that 1951 was a bad winter.

1962/63 I was working as a GPO linesman on top of the Pennines. The overriding memory was of the cold, and the inaccessible side roads. Not much fun in an unheated minivan. Nor was it much fun sliding downhill out of control.

1976 was the year my elder son was born, so we delayed our holiday in a hired caravan until 2 weeks after the fine weather broke!

Duncan, I was at secondary school in the late '50's, and like you, some of us created a long slide down the middle of the boys playground. The problem was that the slide ended where it came up against the external wall of a stone built corridor running along the bottom of the playground. I have a vague memory of someone changing their appearance by failing to stop early enough!

NDIY asks would we cope today with the 1962/63 weather. Answer is that whereas in '62/63 it was everyone for him (or her?) self, and if you got stuck, then better get the shovel out because you were on your own. Today, we wouldn't be allowed out, the Police would simply close all the roads.

[MeunierParticipant @meunier]

This ties into another thread. winter of 62/'63 a colleague and I were on shift Boxing Day. Picked him up at Hounslow West on my new'ish Ariel Golden Arrow and headed out to Heathrow. All went reasonably well until we came to Henleys Corner roundabout where the previous day's traffic had rutted the snow which had then frozen solid overnight. Seems he wasn't a habitual pillion passenger and when we got to the office they sent him to the VIP lounge for a medicinal brandy because he was literally 'green round the gills' First (and last) time I saw someone looking like that.

Winter of '82 have a pic of my young daughter standing on top of my parents garage, a good 12ft high and completely buried. Snow-drifts in our part of W.Wales were so deep the snow-ploughs could not get through and JCBs had to reduce the drifts first. Power was off for 10days.
DaveD

[V8EngParticipant @v8eng]

Currently my workshop is being used as a paint shop for our new doors, with the current weather the paint is drying at an amazing pace even with the door open (too fast really), brings a whole new meaning to the old saying of “like watching paint dry”.😳

I was too young to actually remember the winter of 1947.

In the 1962/3 winter I was into my Apprenticeship and travelling to work by train (BR Apprentice free travel) which was quite an experience, my Father travelled about 15 miles each way to his work on a motorbike, nuff said!

I think we had more snow in the winters of the 60s than in some of the later decades.

1976 what a great summer that was with seemingly endless hot sunny days, that was also the year I met my Wife!

Edited By V8Eng on 04/07/2018 21:41:20

[Mark RandParticipant @markrand96270]

In the summer of 1976 I took my A levels. After that, while waiting to go to Aston to study Electrical Engineering & Electronics, I worked at the Candy Tile factory in Heathfield, Devon (It's now British Ceramic Tiles and the largest tile factory in the UK). Then there were two conveyor belt kilns, Bisque firing and Glaze firing. In between the kilns were all the workers pressing the clay, putting them on cranks, taking cooked biscuit off the cranks, printing and glazing them, putting them on glaze cranks, taking the finished tiles off those, packing them. Sorting first's second's and scrap at several stages. Basically working their cotton socks off between two bloody great 100 yard long kilns.

The entire workforce had a vote and decided to work from 06:00 to 14:00 without a break, rather than 08:00 to 16:30 with a half hour lunch. It was still bloody hot, but at least fewer people fainted…

[Stuart BridgerParticipant @stuartbridger82290]

A bit late to the party on this thread, Workshop is a single flat roof garage. A couple of years back when I was off work, I insulated the ceiling and metal up and over door with foil faced Celotex insulation. Now the coolest place in the house. Shame I haven't got time for any time in there though.

[LimpetParticipant @limpet]

Posted by Mark Rand on 04/07/2018 21:49:34:

In the summer of 1976 I took my A levels. After that, while waiting to go to Aston to study Electrical Engineering & Electronics, I worked at the Candy Tile factory in Heathfield, Devon (It's now British Ceramic Tiles and the largest tile factory in the UK). Then there were two conveyor belt kilns, Bisque firing and Glaze firing. In between the kilns were all the workers pressing the clay, putting them on cranks, taking cooked biscuit off the cranks, printing and glazing them, putting them on glaze cranks, taking the finished tiles off those, packing them. Sorting first's second's and scrap at several stages. Basically working their cotton socks off between two bloody great 100 yard long kilns.

The entire workforce had a vote and decided to work from 06:00 to 14:00 without a break, rather than 08:00 to 16:30 with a half hour lunch. It was still bloody hot, but at least fewer people fainted…

Mark it seems I was just across the road from you in '76 working as a fitter at W. L. Vallance. I have to remember the year well as it was when I got married!!!!!!! Workshop at the moment (well before the rains came) just crept to 26 I am so glad I put the insulation in the roof. My 4000 gallon pond was up to 25. Anyone for boiled Koi

Lionel

[Mark RandParticipant @markrand96270]

Small world! I was living in Ashburton and went to school at Newton Abbot Grammer.

[LimpetParticipant @limpet]

Posted by Mark Rand on 04/07/2018 22:47:27:

Small world! I was living in Ashburton and went to school at Newton Abbot Grammer.

I was living at Bovey and went to school in Ashburton. It is indeed a small world.

Lionel

[mechman48Participant @mechman48]

… I insulated the ceiling and metal up and over door with foil faced Celotex insulation. Now the coolest place in the house. …

​Same here, all walls, ceiling space, roll up door & entry door, walls boarded up with 12mm OSB & infilled with same Celotex between studding, cooler than outside at the moment & maintains a temp of approx + 6 – 8 * in winter when temp. dropped to -2*.

George.

[SamsarandaParticipant @samsaranda]

Just taken the water temperature in my Koi pond, currently reading 24 degrees, it takes an awful lot of sunlight to raise 3,000 gallons to that temperature. If I wasn’t feeling so lazy I could get out my calculator and work out how much energy is needed to raise 3,000 gallons by one degree, it’s too hot to think straight at the moment, very humid as well we have had a yellow weather warning for imminent thunderstorms here in East Sussex, feels like one is brewing, at least I might not have to water the garden this evening as a bonus.

Dave W

[Ron LadenParticipant @ronladen17547]

From memory "I think" it takes 8.33 BTU,s to raise 1 gallon of water by 1 degree Fahrenheit so to raise 3000 gallons by 1 degree F one would assume 24,990 BTU,s. To raise 3000 gallons to 24C..? well lets say an awful lot of energy, its a good job we dont have to pay for sunlight Dave…

Out of interest Dave what water temp can the Koi tolerate, I have always assumed that they are a cold water species.

Edited By Ron Laden on 05/07/2018 15:36:55

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

24 degrees, but where? Is that at the bottom? Remember, cold water does not start to rise until below 4 degrees Celsius.

[SamsarandaParticipant @samsaranda]

Ron, thanks for the calculations, yes an awful lot of energy required for 3,000 gallons. Yes Koi are a cold water fish, in their homeland of Japan they experience very warm summers and very cold winters, the winter is though of short duration for the extreme cold temps, the Koi prefer a very short very cold winter so that they can go into dormancy and then when winter is over they are better suited to a steady relatively short transmission from winter temp to summer temp. It is during this transmission period when the temperatures are warm enough for pathogens and parasites and too cool for the fishes immune system to be fully activated that they are most at risk. Our weather in the UK is far from ideal for Koi because we now have generally mild winters and mediocre summers so the temperature favour pathogens and parasites. Koi can withstand fairly high water temperatures, there are many avid keepers in hot locations such as Oz, the warmer areas of North America and places in the Far East such as Malaysia and Singapore, they successfully keep Koi in very warm waters. The climate in a Japan must be ideal for them as they have recorded ages of 120 for some specimens, the Japanese are however fanatical about Koi it is almost a religion to some.

Dave W

[SamsarandaParticipant @samsaranda]

NDIY, my Koi pond circulates the water from a bottom drain and then passes it through the filtration system and returns it to the surface of the pond, so I would think the temperature gradient between top and bottom in summer is no more than one degree. Probably a bit different in winter, the filtration system still operates but heat is lost at the surface of the pond, and the fish all cluster at the bottom because at six feet deep the pond absorbs ground heat making the bottom slightly warmer and the fish recognise that.

Dave W

[LimpetParticipant @limpet]

NDIY

The water in the pond is continually pumped from the bottom of the pond to the top for the filtration system with a complete water turnover of about a hour, the temp is measured on the return to the pond. I was once told that we don't keep Koi we keep water.

The largest rise in temp was 2.4 degrees C in one day, a bit too much for them really

Lionel

Edited By Limpet on 05/07/2018 17:15:35

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by Meunier on 04/07/2018 21:31:08:

Winter of '82 have a pic of my young daughter standing on top of my parents garage, a good 12ft high and completely buried. Snow-drifts in our part of W.Wales were so deep the snow-ploughs could not get through and JCBs had to reduce the drifts first. Power was off for 10days.
DaveD

The day they opened the roads my dad took me back to university in Aberystwyth from Barry. We hardly saw another vehicle and it was 'interesting' in a Volkswagen Beetle! Typical of my dad, he just helped me unload my stuff, turned round and drove back.

Neil

[SamsarandaParticipant @samsaranda]

Lionel, a very true statement, water quality is paramount, without good water quality there are no fish.

NDIY, as an experiment to satisfy my own curiosity I lowered the thermometer to the bottom of the pond, six feet down, and took a reading of the temperature there, it was exactly the same 24 degrees so at the moment no temperature gradient in the pond.

Dave W

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

When we had a pond with mixed koi/goldfish descended from the householder before the householder before us the survived the pond apparently freezing full depth a few years (only a foot deep), but their numbers decreased as a result and eventually a very long hard winter (I think it was -11 round here) did for them all.

[SamsarandaParticipant @samsaranda]

Neil, most fish don’t like being frozen. Depth of pond at a foot is a bit shallow for a hard winter survival, I know I live in the tropical south east, (East Sussex), but my Koi pond has never suffered any ice in winter, my goldfish pond at three feet deep has frozen over, particularly this last winter. The Koi pond holds such a large volume of water, 3,000 gallons, and is continually absorbing ground heat so stays ice free. I feel for your fish if you get any more!

Dave W

[LimpetParticipant @limpet]

I do my best to not let the pond 4000 gallon(ish) go below 5 degrees which was hard this last winter even in tropical Devon and keep the pumps running all year (although much slower) as I fear the exposed pipework will freeze and crack. Next winter will be easier as it now has a heat exchanger fed from the c/h boiler if it gets too cold, although I dread the cost if I have to use it.

Lionel

[Mark RandParticipant @markrand96270]

Is the heat exchanger on the return line to the boiler? If it's a condensing boiler that'll be more efficient.

[SamsarandaParticipant @samsaranda]

Lionel, I don’t have any exposed pipe work, it runs underground or enclosed in the filter chamber which is gravity fed and located in a large covered chamber set into the ground. The filter chamber is quite large as it houses a Nexus 220 with automatic control. I think the lowest winter water temperature that I have recorded is 4 degrees. I had thought about some method of heating the water during the coldest months, a heat exchanger off a gas boiler would be ideal but I have to tread very carefully our energy consumption is pretty high already, contributed to by 2 pumps, 2 UVs and 2 air pumps running 24/7 365 days a year. I recently installed a wood burner in the lounge which meant that our gas consumption has dropped dramatically when the wood burner is in use, even so I don’t think higher authority is yet ready to sanction heating the Koi pond, perhaps if I got solar panels on the roof that would offset the extra cost with savings on our electric consumption, something I think I will have to work on.

Dave W

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

Solar thermal panels may be a better option, than PV, for an installation like that. You would need to use the heat energy, collected in summer, somewhere else – or cover the panels. PV would certainly reduce your pumping and purification costs all year round! PV panels have never been cheaper and may go cheaper, now the americans are taxing chinese imports…

[Mark RandParticipant @markrand96270]

I'm still calculating 8-10 years ROI on solar PV…

[SamsarandaParticipant @samsaranda]

NDIY, l was thinking of solar PV connected to house system in order to get a return on units generated, although l understand that income is very minimal from units sent to the grid, the solar PV would reduce total units used from the grid throughout the year and therefore reduce annual electric costs offsetting the extra use from my pond systems. Wife says it’s uneconomical use of capital because I won’t live long enough to break even on the investment, does she know something that I don’t and isn’t telling me?

Dave W

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