Windows 10 forced upgrade

[Alan RawlinsParticipant @alanrawlins60482]

Hmm. I too have been bombarded with messages to update for free to win 10. You know what they say about something too good to be true. There were times when I couldn't get rid of it off my computer. At 80 I am not an IT wizard but I must have p….d them off because I haven't had any more invitations to upgrade for a few weeks now.

[Enough!Participant @enough]

Posted by Martin Kyte on 13/06/2016 09:04:02:

The upgrade appears to be free, and it is for a while, however it appears Microsoft are then planning to move to a subscription model, maybe as soon as mid 2016. From then on you'll need to pay per year to keep using it.

 

That's what the scuttlebut says. It's going to be interesting to see what it actually means. Whether MS really has the audacity to "upgrade" it's users (either with or without their connivance) and then tell them later that they've been sucked into a subscription model (after paying for a non-subscription licence on their original version) remains to be seen.

Speculation-wise, it's possible that they won't be that direct. Perhaps the current W10 version (non-subscription) will (rapidly) become unsupported (apart from, perhaps security updates) and be metamorphosed into "Windows-Lite" (perhaps with the help of some judicious "updates" ). MS may lean on companies writing Windows software (and hardware drivers) to ensure that they work only with the subscription version. So that Windows-Lite degenerates into the position that XP is in now (only perhaps more so and more rapidly) ….. yes, it still works – and for some, it's all they need – but for many it's a pain to keep going with contemporary aps and hardware.

 

(Edited to remove spurious "winky"

 

Edited By Bandersnatch on 13/06/2016 22:11:31

[Enough!Participant @enough]

Posted by Roger Provins 2 on 13/06/2016 11:25:07:

I really don't understand why instead of this continual moaning about MS ……..

Kinda the whole point of the thread. See thread title and skip if it bothers you.

[clivelParticipant @clivel]

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 03/06/2016 12:56:01:

Posted by OuBallie on 28/05/2016 14:47:54:

… be shocked that a company like MS would stoop this low.

I find it rather difficult to be shocked by the lowness of Microsoft's stooping

Remember; this is the company that killed both Netscape and Lotus.

MichaelG.

.Edit: … Oops … Forgot to mention OS/2

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 03/06/2016 13:09:18

MS's attempts at scuttling OS/2, which was a superb OS at the time and most definitely far superior to Windows, goes right back to the late 80s and Windows 2.x.

At the time I was working for a small software developer, we were keen to have our product ready to run on the then soon to be released OS/2 GUI, but the OS/2 Software development kit supplied by MS at the then astronomical price of $2500USD a seat was a major stumbling block. Not to worry our friendly MS salesman told us when we questioned the price, MS had a solution, we could get the Windows software development kit for only $70USD a seat, and they "guaranteed" that if we would use that for our development, that when OS/2 was released, our software would be completely compatible, needing nothing more than a recompile and some minor tweaks, at most a days work to have our software running on OS/2 as well as Windows.

Needless to say that is the last time I believed anything from an MS salesman. When O/S 2 was released it had basically two applications; Lotus 123 and WordPerfect. Around the same time MS released Microsoft Word for Windows and Excel accompanied by a whole slew of 3rd party applications by developers who had been tricked into developing for Windows. In one foul swoop, MS had put the first nail in OS/2's coffin and at the same time put Lotus and WordPerfect on the slippery slope towards extinction. Some people called it marketing genius, to me it was downright dishonest.

That being said though, as far as I am concerned Excel has the distinction of being MS's only product that could have succeeded on merit. All MS's other products were no better, and often especially in their earlier incarnations, far worse than competing products relying instead on clever and often extremely underhand marketing techniques to crush the competition and capture market share.

Clive

 

Edited By clivel on 13/06/2016 23:05:30

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

(after paying for a non-subscription licence on their original version)

The contract must have changed fundamentally at some point to allow them to do as they please now

Usually when you get newer software you get the "I agree" tickbox to accept or reject software, this seems to have disappeared now

[Roger Provins 2Participant @rogerprovins2]

Posted by Bandersnatch on 13/06/2016 22:15:06:

Posted by Roger Provins 2 on 13/06/2016 11:25:07:

I really don't understand why instead of this continual moaning about MS ……..

Kinda the whole point of the thread. See thread title and skip if it bothers you.

It doesn't bother me Bandersnatch but I do find it amusing so I'll stay watching.

[BarrLindParticipant @barrlind]

The answer to Windows Live Mail I have found is to move to Mozilla Thunderbird which will not rely on any Microsoft product and will will work across all platforms.

All your history of email and contacts can be shifted into Thunderbird while Microsoft Live mail is still on your PC and when you are happy it all works correctly move across to Thunderbird.

[clivelParticipant @clivel]

Posted by Ady1 on 13/06/2016 23:14:03:

(after paying for a non-subscription licence on their original version)

The contract must have changed fundamentally at some point to allow them to do as they please now

Usually when you get newer software you get the "I agree" tickbox to accept or reject software, this seems to have disappeared now

As far as I am aware (but to be honest I have never read an MS licence in detail) one doesn't actually purchase the software, but are only paying for a licence to use the software. So somewhere in the hundreds of lines of legal gobbledygook there is probably some limitation on the length of time that the licence is valid for.

Clive

 

Edited By clivel on 14/06/2016 00:12:24

[“Bill Hancox”Participant @billhancox]

Posted by Martin Kyte on 13/06/2016 09:04:02:

Hi Chaps

Our IT department reports seeing a number of unasked for upgrades occurring around the lab. The suggestion is to download the free tool on this site.

**LINK**

I am running 8.1. I downloaded Never10 about three weeks ago and have not had a Windows 10 pop up since.

Bill

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Posted by clivel on 14/06/2016 00:09:18:

Posted by Ady1 on 13/06/2016 23:14:03:

(after paying for a non-subscription licence on their original version)

The contract must have changed fundamentally at some point to allow them to do as they please now

Usually when you get newer software you get the "I agree" tickbox to accept or reject software, this seems to have disappeared now

As far as I am aware (but to be honest I have never read an MS licence in detail) one doesn't actually purchase the software, but are only paying for a licence to use the software. So somewhere in the hundreds of lines of legal gobbledygook there is probably some limitation on the length of time that the licence is valid for.

Clive

Edited By clivel on 14/06/2016 00:12:24

Hi, I think you will find that these days the licence is valid for the life of the computer unless you buy one that does not come as a package.

Regards Nick.

[Clive HartlandParticipant @clivehartland94829]

It has been stated in the press that Microsoft has now bought out Linkdin for 25 million, I wonder what plans they have for that .

Very insidious indeed.

Clive

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

W10 running here. I have lost one minor app.

Main issue is that the quick access to apps using the charm bar has gone and I have to use that stupid, crowded start menu all over again. Instead of a big window of organised programs with all their sub-programs, I have to scroll through the main applications in identikit orange boxes.

Another example of where the new idea was better but the innate conservatism of users wins…

Well let's see how it goes.

Neil

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

Posted by Vic on 03/06/2016 14:58:30:

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 03/06/2016 13:31:33:

Too late to edit my previous post, but this short paper from ECIS in 2009 is worth a look.

MichaelG.

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 03/06/2016 13:35:32

Thanks for that. Not sure I've seen it before.

"Microsoft’s conduct over the last two decades has demonstrated Microsoft’s willingness and ability to engage in unlawful conduct to protect and extend its core monopolies. This conduct has caused real harm to consumers, who continue to pay high prices and use lower quality products than would have prevailed in a competitive market"

Does that quote surprise anybody ? I'd be surprised if it does. There was a court case about "it" years ago as they have been making things difficult for the competition right from the point when windows was in wide spread use. And before that really. From memory 2 of the things that came as a result of the case was and end to the method used to ensure all new pc's had windows installed automatically which I suspect didn't achieve anything at all and windows itself providing a dual boot facility.

What they have always done with competitors application software is to change the OS to make life difficult for them. While they have a dominant user base this is a very easy thing to do. Fortunately due to the wide spread use of things other than windows pc's on the web they should find it difficult to get the world to change the way emails work but it may happen. There aim has always been to supply all of the software used on all machines. This effectively just leaves fringe areas for the competition. Sometimes fringe interests grow larger user bases so they get into that as well eg

**LINK**

They have even tried to do something about the embedded market which is huge. For free at one point but it looks like they charge for it now.

Like I said earlier there is no point bleating about it. All people can do is vote with their feet and many don't. This can mean just using some none MS things on their machines rather than the one they supply. However some strange things happen when these get into wide spread use. I'm surprised that there aren't any conspiracy theories about but suspect few notice. Me well I have always suspected there are some odd USA based cosy relationships about but wonder if this is me being paranoid.

John

–

Edited By Ajohnw on 14/06/2016 10:25:16

[Russell EberhardtParticipant @russelleberhardt48058]

Posted by Clive Hartland on 14/06/2016 09:07:04:

It has been stated in the press that Microsoft has now bought out Linkdin for 25 million, I wonder what plans they have for that .

Very insidious indeed.

Clive

That's 26 billion Clive!

Russell.

[Clive HartlandParticipant @clivehartland94829]

Good one Russel, I still cannot see what Linkdin can do for them as it lost a lot of money last year. Unless they will flood W10 with lots of CV's of people.

They also bought Skype some time back.

Clive

Edited By Clive Hartland on 14/06/2016 11:24:18

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Linked in is part of their data gathering strategy. The future is in analysing fuzzy data and linked in gives them access to lots of information on business.

Where the law is weak is in not automatically preventing companies buying another one and linking their two datasets.

Neil

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

All of this thread is mostly concerned with a problem Neil just mentioned that has much wider scope. What I am about to say isn't political but would soon become so if discussed.

It's an issue with free markets. Eventually a few or one company dominates what ever the market is and once that happens they effectively aren't free any more as it can be impossible for others to compete. The companies that eventually dominate are usually the ones in the country with the largest population that can actually buy what ever it is. This then allows them to buy up others often in other countries that have significant markets. The USA in many respects does have the largest buying population or at least has had for the longest time. That's why marketing wise it's seen as the holy of holies by just about every company on the planet.

John

–

[John McNamaraParticipant @johnmcnamara74883]

Cachinked in.

I am not on Linked in a family member is, this person constantly gets offered links to other members, There is some connection to email, if you allow it, it scans your contacts list, as it does with other contact lists it knows about. every time this person contacts a new supplier even once, or a friend, the process of offering these people up is repeated.

It is hierarchical….. There is a ranking of members It sends out lists and images that are sized according to importance, If you know someone that is say an Industry leader the image is double the size of a member of lesser perceived or ranked importance.

I guess soon it will be offering soylent green
HAL and big brother have joined forces. The screen is in almost every room and we are being watched.

Regards
John

[blowlampParticipant @blowlamp]

The sooner MaidSafe is released, the better.

[mickParticipant @mick65121]

I'll just hijack this thread as someone may know what to do. I had to up grade to Windows 10 some eight months ago as no one would repair my old unit which ran Vista, so I had to buy a new unit. I've had loads of glitches with emails, copying files and photos etc, but the main cause for concern is I now cannot connect any devices to the computer. It started with my Touch iPod which won't synct to the music library. Apple support said I would have to switch off my AVG security software. When I told them I wasn't too happy about doing that they couldn't help me with the problem. Now I can't connect my Cannon Sure shot to the computer. Windows support, via a chat line, told me to input my six digit PIN so they could access the unit, but as I don't have a six digit PIN that's another blind alley. All external devices worked okay until about five weeks ago. Does this call for a £50.0 ph house call from an IT engineer?

Thanks. Mick.

[Martin WParticipant @martinw]

Mick

Are all your drivers up to date ? If not then there can be problems running things like printers and some programs. There are several 'Driver Updating Packages' out there for free though you will need to be careful when installing as some may contain unwanted software additions etc.

Martin

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Gordon W on 13/06/2016 11:06:58:

… All I can see different is something called cortina ( or similar) which does not seem to do anything. I suppose I am going to devote more days of my life to figure out what next.

.

Apparently … Cortana is your "personal assistant" **LINK**

Right down to the level where it "tells jokes"

The mind boggles: but remember this was the firm that gave us that silly dog, sniffing around when you did a Search …

MichaelG.

.

P.S. … I know … Apple's Siri is awful too http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/136238-siri-vs-cortana-which-is-the-funniest-assistant … But I suppose this abuse of technology is what mankind desrves. 

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 14/06/2016 19:58:12

[Clive HartlandParticipant @clivehartland94829]

Snaildriver is a free package but it takes some time to go through the PC and download all that is needed, it's a onetime go.

Clive

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 14/06/2016 19:49:29:

Right down to the level where it "tells jokes"

The mind boggles: but remember this was the firm that gave us that silly dog, sniffing around when you did a Search …

It's Apple and Siri who pioneered the wiseacre personal assistant.

Neil

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 14/06/2016 19:49:29:

P.S. … I know … Apple's Siri is awful too

[Author]

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