Which lathe

[Oompa LumpaParticipant @oompalumpa34302]

Posted by Steve Withnell on 15/07/2014 20:21:36:

The sale price expectation on s/h Myford's of unknown pedigree is another issue (for a beginner).

Steve

I agree with your comments Steve but your last point. Frankly some beginners must look upon the Myford as some sort of Holy Grail when it is nothing of the sort. I have seen (recently) an ordinary Box Stock Myford Super 7 lathe in what appeared to be average condition (not even a long bed) advertised for Four and a half GRAND! "Delusional" springs to mind. I wouldn't care but you can't even get three quarter bar down the spindle.

I am not denigrating the Myford, indeed they are nice machines, but the prices some people want? And aditionally the accessories are equally as expensive. It just uses up available cash when there are equally as effective and much cheaper alternatives. Not always, but often enough to make a difference I think.

I might be talking total cobblers and these things may be the whining of someone who doesn't have a Myford. But i don't think so, too many people comment on the outrageous sums asked for these – by and large – older machines for the newcomer to ignore the warnings completely.

Doesn't matter which lathe you buy – you are going to be buying tooling.

graham.

[Bob Brown 1Participant @bobbrown1]

We are back to the age old debate old or new on a limited budget.

Ok aftersales and warranty may be important to some but to me it was more to do with getting a solid ridged machine for a good price. I would have preferred to purchased a Colchester or Harrison but the budget was limited, ruled out Myford because I have a dislike of flat beds and their price. As things worked out I managed to pick up a used but good late Boxford AUD 5" metric lathe and have no regrets and has worked well for the past eight years and has done a fair amount of work and not all on model stuff.

Most of the small model makers lathes are not designed to run in an industrial role so that should be taken into consideration, Boxford's may be marginal in this respect but the likes of Colchester's or Harrison lathes certainly are well capable of this role.

Do not expect the warranty to cover damage caused by miss use which is probably going to be more likely with someone on a learning curve and I'm not too sure on the situation regards spares and aftersales service on the far eastern m/c's as I do not own one.

A lot of people seem to modify or alter the far eastern M/C's so if they were that good why? I have seen no reason to modify the Boxford the only exception I have considered is a DRO but to date can not justify the cost or aggro to fit it.

It's back to pay's your money and makes your choice and what suits one will not suit someone else also it totally depends on what you want to do with the machine and how fast you want to remove metal.

Bob

[Danny M2ZParticipant @dannym2z]

Colin. Whatever lathe you settle on, just keep in mind that the accessories to make a new lathe useful can double the outlay.

One point in favour of a pre-loved lathe is that you may be able to find one complete with all the kit, but in that case it may be wise to take along somebody experienced to check out any potential purchase.

Regards * Danny M *

[Oompa LumpaParticipant @oompalumpa34302]

There is a nice looking Boxford AUD just surfaced on homeworkshop.org.uk with a bit of tooling.

graham.

[WorkshopPeteParticipant @workshoppete]

Hi Colin

I live in Gosforth north Newcastle and have been involved in this wonderful hobby for the last 50 years if you need any help please ask, send me a PE and I will give you my contact details. Alternatively come along to our Model Engineering club in Exhibition Park any Wednesday or Sunday from 10 am we are behind the exhibition building and a very friendly lot.

Peter

[colin palmerParticipant @colinpalmer98646]

Thanks for all the advice in the end I put a list of machines into a hat and pulled out the Chester DB7VS metric so just put in an order for it and it comes with some extras like a 5 piece tooling set and two chucks that should save me later I think so can't wait to get it and trying to set it up so keep your eyes open as I think I will have to do some shouting for help it won't take me long to get stuck just hope the instructions are in plain English. Once again thanks you have made me feel very welcome.

[Raymond Sanderson 2Participant @raymondsanderson2]

It doesn't matter what you buy first off you'll always wish/want bigger and better IF the misses, money and space will allow it.

These days unlike years ago improvements for little more cash are coming out almost everyday even for the hobby sector type lathe.

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

The free tools will likely by painted blue and may be useful as ballast for a model boat one day.

To avoid early disappointment have a look on ebay for a collection of used HSS tool bits being cleared out. Avoid the new unground bars, the fancy sets or one off specials and especially inserted tip tools. The used tool odments will include one or two that are ready ground to a usable shape and just need touching up which is possible by hand if you haven't already got a bench grinder.

When you get a bench grinder you don't need a fancy tool rest before you do anything. When the book says you need a tool angle of 10 degrees it doesn't mean it has to be with and accuracy of a couple of seconds of arc. More like somewhere between 5 and 15 degrees will do just get it sharp not rounded off like your old paint tin opening chisel.

[colin palmerParticipant @colinpalmer98646]

Posted by frank brown on 15/07/2014 17:52:47:

18mm Sterling board is not even any good for a potting shed, with the damp it will droop between the joist. Mount your lathe at right angles to the main floor joists and make sure that the cabinet/stand sits on a decent surface joist that bridges as many under floor joists as possible.

Frank

the shed was built by a joiner friend of mine and the sterling board was well sealed on the underside & edges with bitumen before they were laid 10 years ago and the tops were sealed with thin varnish and then painted with polyurethane floor paint the whole shed is insulated with loft insulation and 4mm ply it has it's own ring main, heating hot water, extractor fan and alarm it ended up costing more than I probably could have bought a log cabin for even the roofing felt was stuck down with hot bitumen

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

> A lot of people seem to modify or alter the far eastern M/C's so if they were that good why?

I have to take issue with that. Anyone looking back through Model Engineer for the past sixty years would discover a huge resource of modifications and improvements to Myford lathes. I don't think anyone would deny that regardless of their quality, neither ML7 nor S7 are 'perfect'. There are even features on cheap imported lathes that some owners have retro-fitted to their Myfords.

For those on a limited budget imported machines do provide an easy route into the hobby with the confidence of dealer support and a warranty. I bought a returned stock' mini-lathe from Machine Mart because that was all I could afford, even a second hand machine was beyond my ambition with newly acquired mortgage and baby on the way! It meant I could get into this hobby in my late 30s, instead of waiting for retirement as I had otherwise thought.

Yes, I have now spent enough to have bought a second hand machine on 'upgrading' it, but in all honesty, aside from skimming brake discs, there isn't a single job I have needed or want to do on it that I can't do.

There was a time when I would have happily gone to a Myford. Now I've seen more machines I would probably go for a Boxford AUD or a 9" swing variable speed import, but quite honestly I have no need for such a beast!

The limiting factor on what I can achieve has always been my skill, not my lathe, and I suspect that is true of 90% or more of hobby engineers.

In a very true sense it doesn't really matter what lathe you have, it's what you do with it that counts.

Neil

[Bob Brown 1Participant @bobbrown1]

I only asked "why" after all these are supposed to be modern new machines not a +30year old machine.

You'd not buy a new car and a year later change the engine or gearbox or would you?

[Jon GibbsParticipant @jongibbs59756]

Posted by Bob Brown 1 on 17/07/2014 11:51:26:

You'd not buy a new car and a year later change the engine or gearbox or would you?

As a fully paid up member of "tool-aholics" I doubt there are very many of my tool purchases – old or new that haven't been fettled/primped or tweaked and I guess many a petrol-head would find it hard to answer that analogy honestly in the negative

Upgrading to the latest and greatest whizz-bang gizmo or other is what it's about for many of us

Jon

[Oompa LumpaParticipant @oompalumpa34302]

The first thing I do when I get a new toy home – is take it apart. Doesn't matter what it is, valve amplifier, lawn scarifier, even watches. I am not alone in this. It has given me more learning experience than any library or college.

Then there are the "improvements". I don't care what it is – it can be modified, sometimes for the better, sometimes no so I believe, with respect, that Bob is missing the point here. It is not about changing the engine or gearbox, nothing so radical in most cases, it is about modifying, adding to or otherwise altering the function of the machine so that it may perform more or different tasks. Remember, these machines are, by and large, manufactured to a price so sometimes desirable features are left off just to achieve the price bracket. Doesn't mean they shouldn't be added at the owners leisure.

Given the age of the Myford it is most likely that all of the modifications and improvements have been "invented" whereas the far eastern imports are only beginners. Bit like John Stevenson's tailstock mod for the Sieg, which is now being adapted to other Asian Lathes.

graham.

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

I started the pulling to bits, and modifying "machinery" at a young age, much to my parents dismay, after playing with a new toy for a while, it had to come to pieces (clockwork tin toys in those days), and I'v been doing it for the last 60 or so years. Ian S C

[HowiParticipant @howi]

Taking things apart must be part of the phsychy of model engineers, we need to know how things work and how they are made – nothing wrong with that.

As for all the false snobbery regarding Chinese machinery I have to agree with Neil, it is not what you have but how you use it, that counts.

If it were not for Chinese machinery, I would not have been able to afford to get into ME.

Yes! Of course I would like a more industrial quality lathe, but the reality of only a small space for a small workshop means this size of machinery is well out of the equation for me and I am more than satisfied with my AMA210 and Super SX2 mill/drill. Long live the Chinese imports.

[robert mortParticipant @robertmort83504]

The Raglan Little John II or "5 inch" are far better and bigger lathes than a Myford and available for £300 or so usually with stand and accessories. They also have a wonderful variable drive that you can adjust at any time, avoiding gear changing.

[mickypeeParticipant @mickypee]

I have had an ML7 for 30 years and indeed it is a delight to use. Even now I look forward to using it, but I agree with Bob Brown 1, it is no where big enough to do normal tasks such as vehicle components. I am lucky enough to have an M300 Harrison which is a very capable machine. I made two TVR flywheels recently without any problems. (only just fitted mind) So i guess there is both ends of the scale, you can alway make small items on a big lathe but not the other way round. If you look on Ebay, you can pick up a Harrison sometimes with tooling for the same or less than a Myford. I too am still unable to work out why Myfords command such high prices. They are nice but some times limited. Have a search on the internet for some good deals and go and look before parting with your hard earned funds.

[Russ BParticipant @russb]

Has anyone had any dealings with SPGtools. They look to be a smaller outfit than most, however their lower overheads are reflected in price. I met them at Harrogate and they seemed to really know their machines, they also had a range of off the shelf upgrades and accessories – belt drive kits for the popular mills, tumble reverse kits for the Chinese lathes all designed in house and warranted for use with their machines. I would recommend calling and not going on their website, as when something is out of stock, they remove the price, so you don't know if it's worth waiting for!

I was looking at a large lathe, the same as the Warco WM240 or larger (400 centres, I think it was 450 maybe) for around £700 with many extras that I'd added (face plate, 4 jaw, fixed and travelling steadies etc), One downside is they sell out of stock rapidly, but if your on a budget, it could be worth waiting for – I remember thinking, the prices aren't just cheap, its a whole different world!

They were Soumy or Suomey machines I think, these machines are not re-branded – apparently, they do have a website but I can't find it now, so I suspect I'm getting the name wrong.

Edited By Russ B on 18/07/2014 10:51:57

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Russ,

I don't know them, but; from the look of the SPG website, I would think that's a very respectable operation.

MichaelG.

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 18/07/2014 10:58:34

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