Which chuck to buy for first lathe ?

[Barry McDowellParticipant @barrymcdowell95834]

The Real Bull lathe is a great small lathe. You can cut both left and right hand threads in both imperial and metric with the appropriate gears fitted. I have fitted a 100mm spindle, tapered bearings, 4" 3 jaw and 4 jaw chucks and have made a 6" back plate for it. Magic machine used within its capabilities and mine.

Barry.

[Nitai LeviParticipant @nitailevi73768]

Both Real Bull and Sieg are AFAIK two the main Chinese makers and many stencils are made by them. I spoke with people who own both and read many reviews and my impression is that both can be very variable in what you get. Basically I wouldn't trust it to be reliable out of the box and probably wouldn't buy one if I expected it to be.

My sieg was very accurate in some ways but had some faults and I worked on it for maybe 30-40 hours to make it as accurate as I wanted it (probably overkill and obsessive…).

I agree with the person who wrote about the Sherline and Sieg. The Sherline is really pretty good and was accurate enough with the stock 3-jaw chuck that I never needed anything else. It needed next to know adjustment out of the box. If my Sherline wasn't limiting me in size I would have kept it.

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

Posted by clivel on 15/07/2015 17:26:05:

Posted by Brian John on 15/07/2015 14:17:09:

NOTE : The Taig lathes do not seem to come assembled. You have to put them together yourself. The motor is also a separate purchase which seems quite odd.

The prices charged by Taig Australia seem to be rather excessive, especially as they only seem to supply the lathe as a kit.
The US site offers the lathe factory assembled including power-feed for $319US or as a kit for only $171US **LINK** those prices don't include the motor or for some strange reason the tail-stock which is available separately for $43.

The advantage of having the motor as a separate item, is reduced shipping costs and more flexible choice for the end user who may prefer for example to fit a variable speed DC motor.
It is a pity though that Taig does not offer a metric version of the lathe.

Clive

Personally I wouldn't advise some one to buy one unless they are prepared to put up with problems I have already mentioned especially as an only lathe. The reason I owned one and some other small lathes is because if I needed anything larger I could use the machines at work in the evening. I'm a design engineer but my indentures kept the health and safety people happy.

Neil has shown that a lot can be done on the mini lathe but my feelings on first lathes is that something like this is a far better option

http://www.warco.co.uk/metal-lathes-metalworking-lathe-machine/15-wm-180-variable-speed-lathe.html

Size wise it will probably take many people a long time to grow out of it other than one problem I will come to. It has the features a lathe should have but a T slotted cross slide can be very handy if people want to be able to do everything that mags like ME show a lathe being used for. Having never been near one I can't comment on turning or precision. The drive set up may have problems doing things like drilling 1in holes as DC motor control like that doesn't increase torque at the cutting tool in the same way as gears or pulleys do. Few small lathes will drill 1in in one go so it's a question of how many drills have to be used – and if the centre distance is big enough to take blacksmith style drills. 300mm isn't brilliant in this respect but does leave some room for the work. Not much though. Something like 100mm less the thickness of the chuck holding the work. Or get the drills reground a lot shorter. This applies to lots of sizes of drill in practice. This is why 18in centres has been rather popular for a minimum, circa 450mm.

Metric / Imperial. I can understand people who have 2 machines wanting them to be the same but machining is the task of producing items of a certain size the units on the machine don't really matter as they can be converted. I did look at going metric and at the time didn't realise that Boxford had an answer to screw cutting metric threads and that aspect put me right off. I even looked at used lathes from the continent and found that these too were not fitted with indicators. I'm not sure what they do on metric 180's but do know that to cut most of the pitches without having to stop and reverse the lathe that the indicator would need a choice of gears to fit to it. Most screw cutting in practice is done with taps and dies but I see lathe reversal as a very severe disadvantage. I have cut metric threads at home on a Hobbymat. It's gone now so last time I needed to screw cut a metric thread I part cut a near imperial and finished it with a metric hand chaser rather than fitting the correct change wheels to convert the gearbox and having to reverse the lathe. Pity it isn't so easy to do internal threads but lathe reversal etc cutting true metric threads into blind holes isn't much fun anyway. I also wonder if lathes like the 180 always use an imperial lead screw and just change the slides over. On the other hand I did see complaints in USA forums some time ago that some lathes just had the dials changes one way or the other on the basis that 2.5mm = 0..100" which of course it doesn't. I'd hope that aspect has been fixed now.

John

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[Brian JohnParticipant @brianjohn93961]

The Australian dollar is dropping like a stone so I better buy a lathe next week while somebody still has old stock. I am leaning towards the Optimum lathe because of its light weight and cheaper cost. I will have to make do without a face plate or steadies for now. A face plate can be made later but I am not sure about the fixed and travelling steadies.

[David ColwillParticipant @davidcolwill19261]

I believe that the reason Taig / Peatol supply machines as kits is to do with health and safety. I was told by the Peatol chap in Birmingham, that they don't have to supply belt guards etc if it's a kit.

Regards.

David.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Brian John on 19/07/2015 09:07:44:

The Australian dollar is dropping like a stone so I better buy a lathe next week while somebody still has old stock. I am leaning towards the Optimum lathe because of its light weight and cheaper cost. I will have to make do without a face plate or steadies for now. A face plate can be made later but I am not sure about the fixed and travelling steadies.

.

Brian,

I just followed the link you posted earlier; and then downloaded the Optimum manual.

An exemplary document !! … If the hardware is as good as the paperwork, you should be on to a winner.

MichaelG.

[Brian JohnParticipant @brianjohn93961]

David : I was wondering about the lack of a belt guard on the Taig : it looked quite dangerous to me. Surely it would not have cost them too much to make one ?

Michael : thank you for that link. It looks very good ; it is the first manual I have seen that does not assume that the owner has used a lathe before.  I hope they also provide a hard copy of the manual with the lathe as I have no printer

1. Why don't small lathes of this size have handles ?

2. What would you use to clean the grease off a new lathe before using ? The manual recommends paraffin but I do not recall seeing paraffin at the hardware store.

NOTE : the manual shows travelling and fixed steadies in the diagrams so they must be manufactured.

 

Edited By Brian John on 19/07/2015 10:06:20

Edited By Brian John on 19/07/2015 10:09:42

[Oompa LumpaParticipant @oompalumpa34302]

Posted by Brian John on 19/07/2015 09:49:42:

David : I was wondering about the lack of a belt guard on the Taig : it looked quite dangerous to me. Surely it would not have cost them too much to make one ?

In order to get your pinky caught in the belt you must first lean across the spinning chuck. Breaking one of the cardinal rules of lathe operation.

In my experience, (actually owning one) the belt is no hazard at all. The chuck on the other hand…….

graham.

[mahgniaParticipant @mahgnia]

Posted by Brian John on 19/07/2015 09:49:42:

2. What would you use to clean the grease off a new lathe before using ? The manual recommends paraffin but I do not recall seeing paraffin at the hardware store.

Brian,

One other name for paraffin is kerosene.

Andrew

[Roger Provins 2Participant @rogerprovins2]

Here paraffin used to be cheap and easily obtained but I now know of only one local source and it's far from cheap plus they don't always have stock.

So what's a good alternative?

Edited By Roger Provins 2 on 19/07/2015 10:35:11

[mechman48Participant @mechman48]

Posted by Roger Provins 2 on 19/07/2015 10:34:34:

Here paraffin used to be cheap and easily obtained but I now know of only one local source and it's far from cheap plus they don't always have stock.

So what's a good alternative?

Edited By Roger Provins 2 on 19/07/2015 10:35:11

White spirits, Turps …

George

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

There isn't really a good alternative to paraffin other than maybe Gunk – an automotive engine cleaner but the problem is it's a soluble oil washed off with water. Petrol can be used but has it's obvious dangers. IPA will dissolve oils after a fashion and might even work out cheaper than paraffin. I just paid £7+ for 4L of that. Disgusted on the price and the fact that it was 4L where as most gallons have gone to 4 1/2 or 5 containers.

I'd guess that the only use for paraffin now is green house heating or cleaning up oily stuff. I just looked on ebay and the first 4L that came up was listed at £34 rrp £47 so I'd guess the local source is cheap – hardware store that also does gardening bits and pieces. There is also a 4x4L pickup only at £25 in Maidenhead. To far away for me.

John

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[Russell EberhardtParticipant @russelleberhardt48058]

Posted by John W1 on 19/07/2015 12:18:47:

I'd guess that the only use for paraffin now is green house heating or cleaning up oily stuff. I just looked on ebay and the first 4L that came up was listed at £34 rrp £47 so I'd guess the local source is cheap – hardware store that also does gardening bits and pieces. There is also a 4x4L pickup only at £25 in Maidenhead. To far away for me.

I don't know where you're looking but that is a ridiculous price. A quick Google turned up this at £4.99 for 4 litres. Here paraffin oil is called petrole and is sold in every supermarket in winter for heating.

Russell

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Brian John on 19/07/2015 09:49:42:

2. What would you use to clean the grease off a new lathe before using ? The manual recommends paraffin but I do not recall seeing paraffin at the hardware store.

.

Brian,

Although perhaps a little pricey by European standards:

Diggers Paraffin Oil is available from Bunnings

[which is a name I think I recall you mentioning in the past]

**LINK**

.

MichaelG.

[having a 'Global Village' moment]

[Steve WithnellParticipant @stevewithnell34426]

Paraffin is usually £6 a gallon at the hardware shop and I thought that was expensive – remember petrol is 85% tax.

Steve

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Steve Withnell on 19/07/2015 17:05:32:

Paraffin is usually £6 a gallon at the hardware shop and I thought that was expensive – remember petrol is 85% tax.

Steve

.

Steve,

For reasons unknown to me: Our antipodean friends appear not to be so lucky.

MichaelG.

[Brian JohnParticipant @brianjohn93961]

Michael : Bunnings is correct but I am not sure paraffin oil is the same as paraffin. As mentioned above ''paraffin = kerosene'' so I am better of sticking with kerosene as shown here

**LINK**

Parrafin oil is more of a lubricant than a cleaner

**LINK**

I tried to see the UN number on the label but it is too small.

[V8EngParticipant @v8eng]

For UK based people: Paraffin is just under £7 for 4 litres in B&Q, Homebase also stock it, I do not know their price though.

White Spirit it will take some paints off as well (don't ask how I know).

I bought some methylated spirits last week, priced to make even petrol seem like a real bargain!

 

Edited By V8Eng on 19/07/2015 18:07:09

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Brian,

I think the real problem is that we have two [or more] nations divided by a common language.

In the UK, the coloured fuel [when commonly available] was known as paraffin.

…I'm sure that either product will be adequate for your lathe cleaning.

MichaelG.

.

Esso Blue !!

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 19/07/2015 18:39:43

[Jesse Hancock 1Participant @jessehancock1]

I suspect the reason for expensive paraffin or kerosene in Oz is they don't have cold winters and only use them intermittently in areas of the house not serviced with a fire place. Either that or an electric heater.

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

Mate bought some Kero last week, and paid $NZ 10 for 500 ml, it's about &NZ 7 . 5 at the local Super Market for 500 ml.

Ian S C

[Brian JohnParticipant @brianjohn93961]

The smaller 24 kg Optimum lathe has a 450 watt motor yet the seller says it will only cut steel if you make very small passes of 0.1mm. The larger 40kg Sieg C2 has a only 250 watt motor but apparently this lathe has no problem with cutting steel. Am I missing something here ? I thought the power of the motor would determine what metal you could cut with it ?

NOTE : I do not mind having to make small cuts of 0.1mm at a time but I am curious.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

With any lathe its limits depend on the tools you use, your own technique, experience and level of confidence.

The Super Adept weighs in at about 3kg and I've read a report of someone parting off 5/8" steel bar on one

Neil

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

24kg sounds like the baby lathe range to me. I advised a friend to not buy one but he did. Some months later he said he wasn't sure what it was for maybe turning plastic. He chose the lathe over the mini range on the basis of it's weight. Having some idea of what he wanted to do I thought that the mini lathes were marginal.

John

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[Author]

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