what size vice for mill

[Peter Etherington 2Participant @peteretherington2]

[Peter Etherington 2Participant @peteretherington2]

Just bought a mini mill XJ12-300 and the table size is 460 x 112mm, what would be the biggest vice I could reasonable put on it. Many thanks, Peter

[EmgeeParticipant @emgee]

Peter

If you fit the vice on the X axis you could fit a greater opening vice than if fitted in the Y axis.
If the top of the Y axis handwheel is below table height you could allow the vice to overhang at the front of the table.
You also need to consider the size of work you expect to do in the vice but I believe a good starting size would be a 100mm wide jaws that open to 100mm or more, fitted in the Y axis direction with the face of the fixed jaw on spindle centreline with the table in the most rearward position.

Emgee

You may want a low profile type to keep a good working distance between the top of the vice and the toolholder.

Edited By Emgee on 22/10/2020 20:09:35

[Dave HalfordParticipant @davehalford22513]

The wider they are the taller they are, a 75/80mm one will be plenty.

[Peter Etherington 2Participant @peteretherington2]

Thanks guys, Peter

[old martParticipant @oldmart]

Look on the ARC site at the sizes of 75 to 100mm size vises. Cut out a cardboard template and offer it up to the mill. That will give a good idea of which suits you best.

[Peter Etherington 2Participant @peteretherington2]

Ta

[old martParticipant @oldmart]

I forgot to mention, get one with a swivel base which is detachable. You will rarely use it, but it can be so frustrating to need one and not have one.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Peter also asked my via one of my Videos on Yutube but I will reply here so that I can add some photos and it may be of use to others wanting to put a big vice on a small mill.

As others here I suggested an 80mm vice for this Mini-mill and these following photos illustrate some of the reasons why I'm using the SX2.7 with a table of 595 x 140 which is larger than the mini-mill's table at 460 x 112.

Firstly a shot of a 100mm versatile vice from ARC without it's swivel base, not that as the size of a vice goes up the fixed jaw tends to be further back from the mounting lugs so if a cutter of modest size (12mm in photos) is to clear the back of any work in the vice then it will have to be mounted to the fromt tee slot. This makes it almost impossible to see the handwheel let alone the dial on a non DRO equiped machine.

The next size down is the 80mm Versatile which can be mounted to the central tee slot which gives a better view of the handwheel and you can also see the dial

Side by side comparison

Peter did say he was thinking of the Radial vice from ARC which probably does have a slightly smaller footprint than the versatile due to not having the "lip" all round the base but tee slot position would still come into it and they don't open as far.

The other thing to think about on the very small mills when looking at vices is their height, here you can see that the top of the 100mm vice's jaws are just under 25mm further above the table than those of the 80mm eating into valuable head room

Finally on a safety note I managed to drop the 100mm vice while taking these photos as it is just about hovering when bolt holes are over that nearest tee slot and that is with the jaws closed, glad I had steel caps on at the time even though I did manage to jump back in time so it only dinged the vinyl tile.

[Blue HeelerParticipant @blueheeler]

Jason what do you use on the handle of the vice a socket and socket handle?

What would you rate that 80mm vice out of 10?

[Neil LickfoldParticipant @neillickfold44316]

I made adapter plates for my vices. It has hold down on the front and rear T slots. Then the vice is placed on this adapter plate. It allows it to be placed at spacing other than the 3 T slot positions. It also allows for pivoting easier as well. Not as easier as the swivel base however.

Neil

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

On the manual mills I tend to use the supplied knuckle bar type handle though I do tend to prefer a cranked type handle but that may simply be due to having used that type a lot more. On the CNC where it is my go to vice I use a 12mm combination spanner as you can't get the knuckle bar in due to the chip tray all around the table.

I'd probably give it 9/10 if 10 were the Kurt version as it does what I want of it and the Kurt certainly cost over 10% more! Each type of vice has it's vices such as the gap along the middle of the vice bottom where you may want to rest work or that can allow swarf onto the screw but that is countered by it having a far greater opening capacity then something like my K4 with it's solid bottom.

[Peter Etherington 2Participant @peteretherington2]

Thanks Jason, I will go for the 3" with it only being a small mill and i`m only building small scale steam loco`s (16mm) It`s man thing I think, always wanting something bigger Peter

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

A sensible choice – as a start. A vise which is too big for the machine is just a pain to use. You could, as per Emgee, fit the vise along the x axis – or you could buy or make a vise to fit anything up to the full length of your table, if needed.

I mainly use 70 and 90mm type ll vises on my mills – but some don’t like that type.

Larger items can be clamped direct to the table, anyway or workpieces can be fixed to an angle plate, etc.

A small vise and a clamping kit are better purchases than one large(r) vise, IMO.

[old martParticipant @oldmart]

You have made a good choice for your mill. Which one are you getting?

[Peter Etherington 2Participant @peteretherington2]

The 3 inch radial from Arc, it is not as big as the 3 inch Versatile from the same supplier

[old martParticipant @oldmart]

Thats a good choice, it has the slight jaw lift problem which can be minimised by making sure the moving jaw has the lowest ammount of play without actually locking up. The plates which hold the moving jaw on to the body can be removed and the clearance can be reduced for a tighter fit. You can test the actual ammount of jaw lift by clamping a thick parallel in the jaws while it sits on a pair of parallels resting against each jaw. One will be loose after tightening the vise. A set of parallels should be on the essential to buy list if you don't have them already.

[Peter Etherington 2Participant @peteretherington2]

Already on list with ER32 collet chuck, 123 blocks, angle block etc, also thinking of adding DRO. Peter

[old martParticipant @oldmart]

Buying the machine is just the start of a money pit with these hobbies.

[Peter Etherington 2Participant @peteretherington2]

All part of the excitement

[EmgeeParticipant @emgee]

Posted by Peter Etherington 2 on 25/10/2020 19:07:16:

Already on list with ER32 collet chuck, 123 blocks, angle block etc, also thinking of adding DRO. Peter

An ER25 chuck will hold up to 16mm shank cutters, the largest recommended for the machine, it will be lighter and smaller to allow access to more restricted areas that need machining.

Emgee

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

Posted by Emgee on 26/10/2020 11:19:58:

An ER25 chuck will hold up to 16mm shank cutters, the largest recommended for the machine, it will be lighter and smaller to allow access to more restricted areas that need machining.

Emgee

ER collets will hold more than just end mills and are useful for both mill and lathe.. I have both ER32 and 16, but have just needed to buy an ER 40 for a job to avoid damaging the parts on a pump – like some muppet had done previously, when it has been taken apart.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Could you not have got an "oversize" ER 32 Collet as they can be had upto 1"

If you are on a limited budget and hope to get the most out of a single set of collets then ER32 is probably the best bet giving reasonable capacity for use on the lathe and collet blocks when used for work holding with the slight disadvantage of being a bit bulky when used with small cutters and/or on a small mill. If purely for cutter holding on a minimill then ER 16 or ER20 would do.

[old martParticipant @oldmart]

The trouble with getting large er collet holders for a small mill is the cost of cutters over 16mm in diameter. The big ones are generally longer and take up valuble Z axis room. That is why I opted for er25 with a maximum of 16mm years ago and have never regretted it since. If a mounting plate for using the er collets on a lathe is also on the wish list, then the bigger the better, as then the collets will be also used for workholding. I hold 18 and 20mm cutters in R8 direct collets, and have 25mm indexible cutters with turned down shanks to fit in them also. Above that are 40, 50, 63 and 80mm shell mills. With your small machine, 40mm would be the largest the power could run.

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

Could you not have got an "oversize" ER 32 Collet as they can be had upto 1"

Was that directed at me? If so, no – I needed a collet for something somewhat larger than 1”. I could have attacked the job in a different way, but the ER 40 will get used for other jobs.  It was simply an example to demonstrate that the maximum collet system purchased is not necessarily limited to the maximum end mill size quoted for the poster’s milling machine.

Edited By not done it yet on 26/10/2020 18:07:55

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