Warco Minor Mill – Spindle Lock

[Mitch Lees 1Participant @mitchlees1]

[Mitch Lees 1Participant @mitchlees1]

I wish to modify my Warco Minor mill by fitting a spindle lock. I am considering doing something with the spindle pulley block with a pin and spring arrangement, but this would mean rotating the spindle by hand until the pin engages – not a very elegant solution. I have searched the forums but can find no advice. As these mills have been around for a long time I was hoping someone may have had a go a this. Any advice gratefully received.

thanks Mitch

[Russ BParticipant @russb]

Mitch, I'm not going to be of any use sorry. What's the spindle lock for?

Assuming it's for tightening or loosening the drawbar….. I bought one of these at work and use it daily, I only ever nip the drawbar and never get any movement when slotting 17mm or fly cutting 2 inch, I just hold the pulley and give the spanner a hit and it tightens/loosens. Just wondering if your taper and tooling is in good condition, sorry if this is unhelpful!

[Russ BParticipant @russb]

Mitch, I'm not going to be of any use sorry. What's the spindle lock for?

 

Assuming it's for tightening or loosening the drawbar….. I bought one of these at work and use it daily, I only ever nip the drawbar and never get any movement when slotting 17mm or fly cutting 2 inch, I just hold the pulley and give the spanner a hit and it tightens/loosens. Just wondering if your taper and tooling is in good condition, sorry if this is unhelpful!

 

Edit, I see below people are tightening ER collets, fair enough! (I've not used my ER sets for donkeys years as I'm only doing basic stuff) I use an autolock chuck both at home and at work so I only ever hand tighten them, and inertia alone is enough to untighten them as has been mentioned. 

Edited By Russ B on 20/02/2020 17:20:06

Edited By Russ B on 20/02/2020 17:20:45

[Colin HarwoodParticipant @balljoint]

Hi Mitch

Below is the solution that I came up with for my Amadeal mill. Looking at pictures of your mill, I think a similar solution could be used.

The large collar is clamped to the fixed spindle, and the smaller collar has flats cut into it which locate on the spanner flats on the quill.

I have found it to be very easy to use, so much easier than finding the big spanner to stop the quill turning

Good luck

Colin

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

I have a Warco Economy.Mill (RF 25 )

Never bother with a spindle lock. Often the inertia of the drivetrain and motor is enough to tighten my ER collets. If it isn't, I use a home made spanner on the spindle flats, and the other on the ER collet spanner..

The RF25 did the milling to make the spanner!

Howard

[Grizzly bearParticipant @grizzlybear]

My word Balljoint, that's a nice job.

[John BaronParticipant @johnbaron31275]

Hi Guys,

FWIW I just put a piece of 8 mm aluminium bar in the wedge slot to stop the spindle rotating when tightening or loosening the ER32 collect nut.

[Mitch Lees 1Participant @mitchlees1]

Thanks Guys,

unfortunately the solutions proposed so far I think will not work on my mill – I wish I knew how to post a picture of the quill/spindle arrangement, but there is no flat on the spindle; there is a slot in the quill, but non in the spindle, and because of how the bottom end of the depth stop is attached to the quill, there is no place for the 2 ring method. My ER25/R8 collet holder does not have a flat either like some I have seen. Thanks anyway

mitch

[egaParticipant @ega]

I don't think the OP actually confirmed his reason wanting to lock the spindle – presumably, against rotation – but there could be other reasons for wanting to do this.

When tightening collets on my Warco Economy Mill (one step down from the Minor?) I just grasp the spanner in one hand and the flywheel on top of the spindle pulleys with the other (the flywheel is, of course, non-standard).

Graham Meek describes a refined solution in his Projects book.

[Mitch Lees 1Participant @mitchlees1]

The reason for wanting the spindle lock is to be able the change tools in the ER25 collet holder while in the process of making a part. To open the pulley housing cover means raising the head so the lid can clear the column, and unfortunately with round column mills this upsets the setting for the part being machined. I have been struggling trying to get pics uploaded – here is a try but one is upside down, but hopefully you will get the idea.

[John BaronParticipant @johnbaron31275]

Hi Mich,

If you look through that slot and rotate the spindle you should see another slot inside. Inside that will be the drawbar.

My machine is virtually identical.

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

John Baron is spot on!

How else could you remove tanged tooling from the spindle?

Are you absolutely sure that there are no flats on the spindle?

My Warco Economy has two flats, and I cannot believe that Rung Fu would omit such a feature from their slightly larger machines.

Even if they have, which i doubt, aligning the slots in spindle and quill will allow the spindle to prevented from rotating for tooling / collet chuck etc to be clamped into or released from the machine.

Howard

[Mitch Lees 1Participant @mitchlees1]

John,

I also though there would be a corresponding slot in the spindle – the machine even comes with a wedge tool for knocking out a chuck. I have just gone out to the workshop again to check so I don’t make a fool of myself, but no matter how many times I rotate the spindle I cannot make another slot appear! Do you think this is because the taper is R8 and not a Morse taper – not sure that would make a difference though. The very rudimentary set of instructions I have are no help at all.

i think what I might do is use the depth stop attachment ring as one of Colin’s 2 ring solution and turn an aluminium ring for the spindle with holes for a pin. Unlike Colin’s lathe however there are no flats on the spindle to locate this ring. Grub screws bearing on the spindle may not hold very well(?), so I may have to split the ring, use lugs and a screw to tighten it. Not only would such a machining task be at the limits of my skill level, I wonder if protruding lugs and a screw might unbalance the spindle – any views please.

thanks for bearing with me

mitch

thank you

mitch

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

If you make a fixed ring (split and the two halves clamped together ) can you drill a hole through the ring and into the spindle (Or is it HARD? ) ?

In this way, you just put a peg through the hole and into the drilling to lock the spindle. If you are worried about inadvertently leaving it in place, make the peg long and put a prominent ball / handle on the end.

Howard

[Mitch Lees 1Participant @mitchlees1]

Howard,

I had just assumed the spindle would be hardened, and that drilling directly into it would mean taking the spindle off. Moreover, I am quite nervous about drilling holes in the most important part of the mill. As you can probably tell I do not have a that much experience, and maybe this modification is a ‘bit too advanced’ for me.

very grateful for your help

Mitch

[John BaronParticipant @johnbaron31275]

Hi Mich,

Mine is an MT3 spindle, so you may be right about the R8 spindle !

But I do agree that it would not be an easy task to fit a proper spindle lock, even on mine.

My ER collet chuck does have a pair of flats just above the nut, but being lazy its easier to put a peg into that slot. It also gives me both hands to tighten the collet nut.

[Mitch Lees 1Participant @mitchlees1]

John,

Maybe the simplest answer is for me to buy a new ER25 chuck – one with flats.

thanks again

mitch

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

Even cheaper than buying a new ER chuck with flats would be to machine a couple on the existing one?

[Mitch Lees 1Participant @mitchlees1]

You are quite right, that is what I will do.

mitch

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

By the way I think it is a Warco Major. The style of the base of the column is different from my monor and I doubt the little minor would have had an R8 option.

[Martin ConnellyParticipant @martinconnelly55370]

I have a Bridgeport drawbar on my similar mill. The thick end stays above the belt cover and has spanner flats. I use this to tighten the R8 collet holding the ER collet chuck by means of a ring spanner on the drawbar and one on the ER chuck. Once there is some grip by the R8 collet you can put on plenty of torque. It is also good for removing the ER chuck. My ER chuck has flats and general tool change is by use of a spanner on these flats and an ER nut wrench.

I don't need to worry about the drawbar protruding above the cover as i don't open it often as I have a VFD.

Martin C

[old martParticipant @oldmart]

I would look into milling flats on the collet chuck to use a spanner on. I did that with a 6mm solid carbide end mill on the er25 x R8 collets that I bought. I notice that the current Chinese ones already have the flat from new. If we want to change the cutter without removing the er25 from the spindle, we use spanners with specially long handles, at least 250mm long. On the Tom Senior with the R8 spindle, I had the luxury of being able to incorporate spanner flats near the spindle nose during the design phase and also another mill to carry out the work.

[Mitch Lees 1Participant @mitchlees1]

Martin,

I am fed up with climbing on a stool every time I want to make a speed change so I am going to invest in a 3 phase motor and vfd like you. Again in order to open the pulley cover I usually have to move the head up, so when drilling and then reaming at a different speed I loose the position of the column – once I have the vfd I should be able to avoid this.
I am going to adapt my Er25 collet holder, but I will make sure the next size of er collets I buy have a chuck with flats. The spindle stop however is still the ideal solution as one can loosen the collet with one hand and hold the tool with the other, whereas with 2 spanners you know what will happen to the tool!

thanks

mitch

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

you know what will happen to the tool!

Perennial problem with a mill and ER collets. I keep some ‘1-2-3’ blocks of wood handy, to support the cutters while tightening or loosening the chuck. The knee of my Raglan mill goes up and down like a yoyo when drilling, tapping and counterboring!

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