Time for a new lathe

[Boiler BriParticipant @boilerbri]

MIKE THE BIKE,

I m trying to get hold of you. Please read your mail.

Bri

[Boiler BriParticipant @boilerbri]

I recently visited this company to collect a radial arm drill that we have bought.

 

I saw this lathe and it is in excellent condition. Maybe someone is interested? Some other equipment may be of interest to some of you???????

 

**LINK**

 

I should have added, these guys are really old school and when they take a machine in, they strip it and rebuild it. They are like new when they go out. We have bought a few machines and they really are excellent.

 

Bri

Edited By Boiler Bri on 29/08/2013 22:00:13

[Thor 🇳🇴Participant @thor]

Petro1head,

My choice would be the 280, a bit more expensive but you get a wider bed.

Thor

[petro1headParticipant @petro1head]

Ok, I thought I would throw this into the mix, what are your thoughts?

**LINK**

[KMPParticipant @kmp]

Petro1head Hi,

The Craftsman type lathe was sold widely and was very popular for many years. Have a look for the Warco BH600G, or any 1224 variant (the GH1224 or 1236 was the gear head). It is a very solid and reliable machine which is well equipped when supplied new, for many years sold for about £1500. It came in either 24 or 36" between centres with or without a gap bed, in the early days several people reported difficulties with refitting the gap piece after removal but this could have been refitting technique but nevertheless lead to many not ever removing the gap piece. While the belt drive is simple and very reliable the 2hp motor needs lifting a little to change speed and is very heavy so many were converted to 3ph and variable speed. The top spindle speed at 1200rpm is also a limitation if you are going to use it for smaller items and tipped tooling. I have had the Warco non gap version for about 10 years but find it big and heavy to use with chucks etc getting more difficult to change as I get older. It has therefore had almost no use in that time. The machine is also heavy and takes a bit of moving, I move mine with an engine crane.

I mention the above in part to explain why more modern replacements have electronic variable speed drives and a few more "bells and whistles". These can also lead to reliability issues as the machines get older and there are sometimes issues with the cost and availability of the electronics, modern machines might be much better in this respect though.

So, good solid, simple and reliable machine of the old school. It was hard to beat in its day but the price rise and improved competition have lead to many suppliers dropping the model.

Best regards

Keith

[mickypeeParticipant @mickypee]

I am also more automotive than models and do a lot of bespoke work on vehicles (see website) I have a Myford late as well but mainly use my Harrison M300 lathe which is more than capable of any vehicle projects. They can be found reasonably cheaply and in good order. In my opinion if you have the space, it's the lathe to have.

Mike

[petro1headParticipant @petro1head]

Posted by KMP on 30/08/2013 10:05:22:

Petro1head Hi,

The Craftsman type lathe was sold widely and was very popular for many years. Have a look for the Warco BH600G, or any 1224 variant (the GH1224 or 1236 was the gear head). It is a very solid and reliable machine which is well equipped when supplied new, for many years sold for about £1500. It came in either 24 or 36" between centres with or without a gap bed, in the early days several people reported difficulties with refitting the gap piece after removal but this could have been refitting technique but nevertheless lead to many not ever removing the gap piece. While the belt drive is simple and very reliable the 2hp motor needs lifting a little to change speed and is very heavy so many were converted to 3ph and variable speed. The top spindle speed at 1200rpm is also a limitation if you are going to use it for smaller items and tipped tooling. I have had the Warco non gap version for about 10 years but find it big and heavy to use with chucks etc getting more difficult to change as I get older. It has therefore had almost no use in that time. The machine is also heavy and takes a bit of moving, I move mine with an engine crane.

I mention the above in part to explain why more modern replacements have electronic variable speed drives and a few more "bells and whistles". These can also lead to reliability issues as the machines get older and there are sometimes issues with the cost and availability of the electronics, modern machines might be much better in this respect though.

So, good solid, simple and reliable machine of the old school. It was hard to beat in its day but the price rise and improved competition have lead to many suppliers dropping the model.

Best regards

Keith

Thanks for the reply Keith, re changing the speed, whats involuved as I would rather not be messing about with belts as also getting old and a poor back

[KMPParticipant @kmp]

Posted by petro1head on 30/08/2013 10:38:20:

Thanks for the reply Keith, re changing the speed, whats involuved as I would rather not be messing about with belts as also getting old and a poor back

Hi, the issue is with the two speed pulley from the motor to the countershaft. The motor hangs underneath and to the back of the machine. The motor is positioned by the usual link and adjusting screw to tension the belt. To change from Hi to Lo range the motor has to be lifted to provide clearance for the belt to move from one groove in the pulley to the other, if you have access to the back of the machine and a good back a fairly simple task; but who has either of those? The common method is to remove the link and let the motor hang on the belt with tension relying on the weight (not usually a problem) and then using a length of strapping the belt can be persuaded across the pulley from the top. Without the bit of strapping it can be a finger pincher. Not an insurmountable problem but a hassle if speed changes are regular.

There is a very good review on the Warco BH600G (Warco's version of the Craftsman) written by Graham Howe which can be found here:

**LINK**

Well worth a read if you are contemplating one.

Regards

Keith

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

There were some articles on modifying the BH600 by Anthony Mount in ME or MEW a few years ago. These Chinese lathes are pretty much kit built – so the bed/saddle/tailstoick on a gearhead 1232 is the same as on the belt drive Craftsman. (note to worldwide readers the Craftsman in the USA is a completely different older machine). The gearhead 1232 type is pretty much a copy of the Harrison M300 with every conceivable cost saving applied. They weigh a little over half a ton.

How about this (size comparison no quality implied)

Boley = Lambretta
Hobbymat = Smart
Myford = Mini 2
Boxford = Landrover
1232 = yankee SUV
DSG = Bentley (quality is implied here)

[petro1headParticipant @petro1head]

Warco no longer do the BH600G

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Thee is a 280VF in the classifieds here if you have not seen it, our old friend TerryD is selling it, almost unused.

[petro1headParticipant @petro1head]

Posted by JasonB on 30/08/2013 16:49:18:

Thee is a 280VF in the classifieds here if you have not seen it, our old friend TerryD is selling it, almost unused.

Oooo, thanks, will have a look

[Thor 🇳🇴Participant @thor]

Hi Petro1head,

I agree with Keith, but the Chester Craftsman is alsmost twice as heavy and cost more. As Keith mentions, if you need speeds above 1200 RPM you could replace the motor and use an inverter to get variable speed. So it depends on what kind of work you will do.

Thor

[petro1headParticipant @petro1head]

So its probably looking like the 280 either from Warco, Chester or Amadeal

So, who gives the best after sales

[KMPParticipant @kmp]

Yes, as I said several importers have stopped listing these lathes but my reference to the BH600 was to give you an idea of what the machine was like irrespective of the name on it or paint scheme; in reality they are all remarkably similar. Toolco still list it as a 1224 but I see they are out of stock.

To go back to your original question I'm not sure if you are wanting a "new" lathe or if a secondhand one would be considered. This always brings the dilemma of comparing the cost of new/used and trying to get the best value for your money – at least it will if you are tight like I am. Over the years I have bought both new and used and had good and bad experiences with both. While many are keen to extol the virtues of used the truth is you have to be both lucky to find a really good one and also able to tell if it really is the "almost unused one" they invariably claim. Of course with a new import many will tell you that it will need a complete strip and rebuild to be usable. In my experience that is less of an issue nowadays but I would personally always buy from an importer that had good after sales support even if it was not the cheapest on offer.

Looking at some of the machines suggested I have experience of and still own/use a few of them, I have a Boxford AUD which is very popular with bike/car restorers for some very good reasons. It is a compact, sturdy, accurate and reliable machine that is widely available and relatively cheap for the quality it provides. But, as there always is a but, you have to find one that has not been worn out or "refurbished" with a paint brush. It took me several years to find the long bed one I have and had me looking at a number of machines that were well past their sell by date. To be honest I don't use it a lot these days but will not sell it as I could not match the quality it provides at many times what it would fetch.

The Craftsman type machine I have described and again don't see anything available new that would be an improvement without spending a lot more money than I could realize from selling it.

The one I did sell,was a Harrison M300, first class machine when new but the one I got had a number of gearbox and bearing problems that were unbelievably expensive to correct or would mean that I would have had to spend lots of time looking for bargain parts to surface.

My most used lathe is a Myford S7 and it is the lathe I load work onto if at all possible. I guess I'm saying that there are as many "best" lathes as there are lathe owners. What is important is you identify what is critical to you and ensure that any lathe you buy will do the task you need it to. Some of the newer import lathes are very well equipped, very versatile and while not built like Rolls Royces are well able to be used accurately for a reasonable period of time.

I don't mean to confuse the issue but to encourage you to identify what you need from a machine, have a good look at some of the possibilities and if possible have a play with them and see what they feel like to use and if things appear to be in sensible places. If I were to start again I think 95% of what I do would be covered by the WM280V-F type lathe that has been mentioned by several people. It would also cost much less than the collection of lathes I currently have.

Keith

[KMPParticipant @kmp]

Posted by petro1head on 30/08/2013 17:47:33:

So its probably looking like the 280 either from Warco, Chester or Amadeal

So, who gives the best after sales

I can't comment on Amadeal as I have only bought one small item from them, I have bought from the other two and I personally always look first at the Warco deal. They have always treated me very fairly and sorted out the two very minor issues I had instantly. They are at most of the shows and I have always found Roger to be approachable, very friendly and willing to help if he can. To be honest the machines I bought from Chester were very reasonable as well although I found their delivery to be expensive. I have, in general found them less approachable and to an extent less sympathetic to my amateur needs. Just my perception and I probably spoke to the wrong guy at the time.

Keith

[petro1headParticipant @petro1head]

Am I getting too hung up on the spindle bore size or is 26mm enough

[AeronutParticipant @aeronut]

Hi petro1head I have a Warco 1232 I bought this because Warco had stopped doing the BH900 but when I went to the Harrogate show in 2010 they said that the BH600 was now available not been large enough I went for the 1232. Now just because it says out of stock on the warco website doesn't mean you can't get what you're after. I was told I'd have to wait for another shippment from China because the last batch of 1232's had all been sold before the were even in the country. I was waiting about 6 weeks. The variable spped lathes look good but do the have bolt on chucks as opposed to screw on or camlock, this can be a bit of a niggle. Warco and the Chester variants seem very similar. Just after I'd purchased mine the 1232 became the 1230 (don't know why) I've had my Warco 918 10 years now and the 1232 just 2 years and I'm highly satisfied. Must admit I love the 38mm bore of the 1232. But its what you need and what your pocket can afford.

Regards Lee **LINK**

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

The 26 has been OK for me and I've done 2" traction engine and some large hit & miss engines plus scratch built steam engines at upto double there original designs.

Toolco do the 38mm bore one as well but without the added cost of DRO & stand. Amadeal do not include some things that others fo like steadies and faceplates so work out the true costing before deciding. Chesters does not have power cross feed.

J

[petro1headParticipant @petro1head]

Is it workthwile waiting until the next exhibition which I belive is October ie will I benefit from any discount?

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

There are fewer show offers and discounts these days but there is the great advantage of getting to see the device in the flesh before buying which might be quite important as you are not familiar with them. A lot of people, like me, will have spent years at shows drooling over the shiney new kit and when thinking of parting with cash for real suddenly realise there are a lot of things to be checked on. After all it is only a couple of months away.

With regard to extras check specifically as bits may be left off/added to the websites. Also delivery. Warco include it in the price using their own transport who ( in my experience) will put it wherever a pallet truck can get but others charge and may use couriers who will only dump it on the kerb.

[Thor 🇳🇴Participant @thor]

Petro1head, you asked if 26mm spindle bore is enough, well that depends on how big your work is. My old lathe has a 20mm bore and I often found that too small. So I went for the 290 lathe with a 38mm spindle bore. If I had been able to put a bigger lathe into my small workshop I would.

Thor

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

Am I getting too hung up on the spindle bore size or is 26mm enough?

There will be times when a big spindle bore will be a godsend, particularly if you need to do a number of parts

[Russell EberhardtParticipant @russelleberhardt48058]

It all depends on what motor car work you intend to do. I used my 5 inch Atlas lathe in the restauration of a number of vintage cars from Austin sevens up to a 1930's Talbot sports racing car. Most of what I wanted to do was possible on the Atlas but I would like to have been able to skim the 16 inch ID brake drums on the latter and get half shafts through the bore.

Russell.

[petro1headParticipant @petro1head]

Just thought you guys would like to know I ended up getting the 290 from Warco. Should be delivered next Monday.

 

I would like to take this opportunity to thank you for your help and advice

 

My ML7 will be up for sale soon as well

Edited By petro1head on 04/09/2013 12:31:20

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