The Chocolate Fireguard as designed by Mercedes Benz

[Mike PooleParticipant @mikepoole82104]

BMW 320D M Sport X drive with sport auto box and paddle shift. And I don’t deal drugs.

mike

Edited By Mike Poole on 27/04/2019 22:23:20

[RMAParticipant @rma]

Nice car Mike my son has a 330 M sport X drive, but I've given up on 3 series now as I find them too low for everyday driving.

I'd be interested hear what Not done it yet and ChrisH drive, they seem very critical of other's.

[Mike PooleParticipant @mikepoole82104]

My Cmax is much more comfortable as I am a chap with a fuller figure or fat bastard if you like, the beemer is a bit of a struggle to get in and out especially for my wife and I mothers who still bang their heads getting in and they are only about 5ft tall. I had a 1 series for a while but that was like trying to climb into your fridge.

Mike

[Michael HornerParticipant @michaelhorner54327]

Posted by Mike Poole on 27/04/2019 20:48:28:

Some people sit at a standstill with their foot on the clutch, I do use the neutral selection on lights I know have a long sequence, I often turn off the irritating auto stop. The car wash is a bit of a problem with the low profile tyres as the guides can touch the rim of the alloys, the lads at the hand wash do a great job but the pressure washers are pretty fierce.

Mike

I believe I.A.M's recommend being in gear at the traffic lights so if things go pear shaped there will be some measure of control, I did query that this meant the engine wouldn't switch off and the reply was safety takes precedent over emissions.

Cheers Michael

[Mike PooleParticipant @mikepoole82104]

That’s going to kill the clutch thrust bearing on a manual clutch, I would never use the park position on an auto car in traffic as a shunt will probably do a lot of damage to the transmission lock, one of the reasons I don’t like holding an auto with the brakes during a long wait is I imagine the fluid is getting hotter and no air flow through the transmission rad but I expect it’s all cooled with an electric fan so probably nothing to worry about

Mike

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

Posted by RMA on 27/04/2019 22:17:32:

Posted by not done it yet on 27/04/2019 22:01:31:

Posted by RMA on 27/04/2019 20:24:50:

Posted by Mike Poole on 27/04/2019 19:59:36:

Your BMW auto should have a selection N which will stop it driving and let you use the handbrake. Also handy in a pull through type car wash where if you select P the transmission will be locked and the conveyor will be stalled or pull under the wheels.

Mike

I don't know anyone with an automatic who drives that way. I have to keep the foot brake on with the stop/start function, and I don't think the electronic 'hand brake' would control rollback when starting on an incline. I wouldn't dream of putting the cars through a car wash, they create too many swirls to the paintwork.

An automatic gearbox changes gears automatically. It relies on the driver to select drive or neutral and apply the hand brake like the highway code says – or used to say. – just like in any other car. Automatic drivers are just too lazy to drive properly. Brake lights are an indication that you are stopping, not parked for minutes on end! Consideration for other road users does not seem to apply to them.

Do you actually drive a modern automatic car? Would be interested to hear.

Depends on what you call “modern’.

The one I drive regularly is a Peugeot 607. Yes, I do select neutral and apply the handbrake when waiting in a queue of traffic. Yes, I do use the tiptronic gearbox in a more sensible way than the auto-select part does. Previous autos range from the 1970s Ford’s Capri and Granada, to the earlier BMW-powered Range Rover.

It is not just the inconsiderate drivers of automatics that don’t consider other road users. Many drivers of manual gearbox cars sit with their foot on the brake.

There is one roundabout in town where it seems that nearly everyone stops. They should have failed their driving test, by stopping unnecessarily. Also we have halt (stop) signs where very few drivers adhere to the lawfully erected signage.

There are drivers and just plain ‘aimers and steerers’. I would be interested to read (can’t hear a lot in a text message) into which group you fit.

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

I think the handbrake at the traffic lights is a uniquely UK thing. I have never come across it in 45 years of driving in Oz, Africa, Asia and the USA. To me it seems bizarre that you would even do such a thing, let alone that it be legally required.

And dazzled by brake lights? Never come across that one either. Can't say I have ever once even thought about it before reading this thread. Is it really a thing?

Edited By Hopper on 28/04/2019 11:21:01

[ChrisHParticipant @chrish]

Oh dear RMA – my comment was summarising a lot of comments others had made on this thread about the Merc, Audi and BMW drivers in general. I would certainly agree with the feeling previously expressed here that most of those drivers seem to demonstrate a feeling of entitlement that the road is their own and drive accordingly, without a lot of regard or consideration for others and usually far too fast and too close to the guy in front – certainly none seem to have heard of the "only a fool breaks the two second rule" – and without regard for the road conditions, and yes, indicators do seem to be an optional extra most of them forego.

I was once in the middle of a 74 car pile up on the M23 early one winters morning in the 1990's. At that time I was driving about 30,000 miles a year. Because I did respond to the foggy icy conditions I managed to stop in the middle lane totally unscathed, as did the lady driver behind me and the coach behind her. All around us were cars that had been shunted front, or rear, or side and often all three. All those damaged had been seen to have been driving far too fast and close for the conditions. One idiot who undertook me at speed then swung out right onto the tail of the guy in front ended up next to me shunted all three ways and then appeared on the tv news saying it all happened so suddenly there was nothing one could do. If you drive like the idiot he was then I agree, there is nothing one could do.

Sound like a raw Merc/Audi/BWM nerve has been touched………?

Too many seem to have a misplaced but touching faith in their own immortality.

[RMAParticipant @rma]

Posted by ChrisH on 28/04/2019 11:55:51:

Oh dear RMA – my comment was summarising a lot of comments others had made on this thread about the Merc, Audi and BMW drivers in general. I would certainly agree with the feeling previously expressed here that most of those drivers seem to demonstrate a feeling of entitlement that the road is their own and drive accordingly, without a lot of regard or consideration for others and usually far too fast and too close to the guy in front – certainly none seem to have heard of the "only a fool breaks the two second rule" – and without regard for the road conditions, and yes, indicators do seem to be an optional extra most of them forego.

I was once in the middle of a 74 car pile up on the M23 early one winters morning in the 1990's. At that time I was driving about 30,000 miles a year. Because I did respond to the foggy icy conditions I managed to stop in the middle lane totally unscathed, as did the lady driver behind me and the coach behind her. All around us were cars that had been shunted front, or rear, or side and often all three. All those damaged had been seen to have been driving far too fast and close for the conditions. One idiot who undertook me at speed then swung out right onto the tail of the guy in front ended up next to me shunted all three ways and then appeared on the tv news saying it all happened so suddenly there was nothing one could do. If you drive like the idiot he was then I agree, there is nothing one could do.

Sound like a raw Merc/Audi/BWM nerve has been touched………?

Too many seem to have a misplaced but touching faith in their own immortality.

I'm afraid your description of driver behaviour fits drivers of ALL vehicles as my dashcam will confirm, to generalise on drivers of certain German cars says more about you than the average driver of such vehicles. Usually it comes from people who don't have them!

The crash scenario you describe is very common which is why vehicle technology is changing to overcome these problems. Auto braking and speed control for instance…….isn't this where the thread started, I can't remember.

[Clive HartlandParticipant @clivehartland94829]

dazzled by lights, I have noticed for some time that crossing lights and traffic lightts have become very bright and do dazzle! Maybe a conversion to LED source of light.

The amount of technology incorporated in a new car now is mind boggling, a nightmare for designers. Switch fo that a switch for thiis and you need to read the manual twice or three times to understand. 90% I will never use.I would need a £900 Smart Phone to take advantage of the Blue Tooth and switches on the steering wheel. Got caught by the child lock on the rear doors.

Luckily I have a Class six engine of 1998 cc so my car tax is only £20.

Clive

[RMAParticipant @rma]

Posted by not done it yet on 28/04/2019 11:09:02:

Posted by RMA on 27/04/2019 22:17:32:

Posted by not done it yet on 27/04/2019 22:01:31:

Posted by RMA on 27/04/2019 20:24:50:

Posted by Mike Poole on 27/04/2019 19:59:36:

Your BMW auto should have a selection N which will stop it driving and let you use the handbrake. Also handy in a pull through type car wash where if you select P the transmission will be locked and the conveyor will be stalled or pull under the wheels.

Mike

I don't know anyone with an automatic who drives that way. I have to keep the foot brake on with the stop/start function, and I don't think the electronic 'hand brake' would control rollback when starting on an incline. I wouldn't dream of putting the cars through a car wash, they create too many swirls to the paintwork.

An automatic gearbox changes gears automatically. It relies on the driver to select drive or neutral and apply the hand brake like the highway code says – or used to say. – just like in any other car. Automatic drivers are just too lazy to drive properly. Brake lights are an indication that you are stopping, not parked for minutes on end! Consideration for other road users does not seem to apply to them.

Do you actually drive a modern automatic car? Would be interested to hear.

Depends on what you call “modern’.

The one I drive regularly is a Peugeot 607. Yes, I do select neutral and apply the handbrake when waiting in a queue of traffic. Yes, I do use the tiptronic gearbox in a more sensible way than the auto-select part does. Previous autos range from the 1970s Ford’s Capri and Granada, to the earlier BMW-powered Range Rover.

It is not just the inconsiderate drivers of automatics that don’t consider other road users. Many drivers of manual gearbox cars sit with their foot on the brake.

There is one roundabout in town where it seems that nearly everyone stops. They should have failed their driving test, by stopping unnecessarily. Also we have halt (stop) signs where very few drivers adhere to the lawfully erected signage.

There are drivers and just plain ‘aimers and steerers’. I would be interested to read (can’t hear a lot in a text message) into which group you fit.

By modern I mean cars which have stop/start for instance, so we're looking at about 5 year's old I guess. This feature which cuts out a lot of pollution only works when your foot is on the brake. The new buses have this feature now……… even I use my bus pass!

So instead of blaming drivers, why not get together and have a go at the manufacturers to modify how the brake lights work. They could switch off automatically after a period of being stationary, and while you're at it have a go at them to reduce the brightness of LED running lights, particularly those on certain 4 x 4's which are at eye level.

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

Posted by RMA on 28/04/2019 12:16:26:

Posted by not done it yet on 28/04/2019 11:09:02:

Posted by RMA on 27/04/2019 22:17:32:

Posted by not done it yet on 27/04/2019 22:01:31:

Posted by RMA on 27/04/2019 20:24:50:

Posted by Mike Poole on 27/04/2019 19:59:36:

Your BMW auto should have a selection N which will stop it driving and let you use the handbrake. Also handy in a pull through type car wash where if you select P the transmission will be locked and the conveyor will be stalled or pull under the wheels.

Mike

I don't know anyone with an automatic who drives that way. I have to keep the foot brake on with the stop/start function, and I don't think the electronic 'hand brake' would control rollback when starting on an incline. I wouldn't dream of putting the cars through a car wash, they create too many swirls to the paintwork.

An automatic gearbox changes gears automatically. It relies on the driver to select drive or neutral and apply the hand brake like the highway code says – or used to say. – just like in any other car. Automatic drivers are just too lazy to drive properly. Brake lights are an indication that you are stopping, not parked for minutes on end! Consideration for other road users does not seem to apply to them.

Do you actually drive a modern automatic car? Would be interested to hear.

Depends on what you call “modern’.

The one I drive regularly is a Peugeot 607. Yes, I do select neutral and apply the handbrake when waiting in a queue of traffic. Yes, I do use the tiptronic gearbox in a more sensible way than the auto-select part does. Previous autos range from the 1970s Ford’s Capri and Granada, to the earlier BMW-powered Range Rover.

It is not just the inconsiderate drivers of automatics that don’t consider other road users. Many drivers of manual gearbox cars sit with their foot on the brake.

There is one roundabout in town where it seems that nearly everyone stops. They should have failed their driving test, by stopping unnecessarily. Also we have halt (stop) signs where very few drivers adhere to the lawfully erected signage.

There are drivers and just plain ‘aimers and steerers’. I would be interested to read (can’t hear a lot in a text message) into which group you fit.

By modern I mean cars which have stop/start for instance, so we're looking at about 5 year's old I guess. This feature which cuts out a lot of pollution only works when your foot is on the brake. The new buses have this feature now……… even I use my bus pass!

So instead of blaming drivers, why not get together and have a go at the manufacturers to modify how the brake lights work. They could switch off automatically after a period of being stationary, and while you're at it have a go at them to reduce the brightness of LED running lights, particularly those on certain 4 x 4's which are at eye level.

No, the brake lights should not switch off after being stationary for so long. I leave my brake light on until the next vehicle has surely seen that I am stationary. It is a bit debatable exactly how much pollution stop/start avoids. I can, and do, stop the engine if I am going to be stationary for some time. It is not difficult.

So you have avoided my invite as to which group of drivers you fit? These days, the default group is ‘aimers and steerers’, I’m afraid.

[Nick WheelerParticipant @nickwheeler]

I like aimers and steerers as a classification, but there needs to be a third group; shouters. These are the people that you see shouting at other drivers, or leaning on their horns when something they don't like or weren't expecting happens.

[martin perman 1Participant @martinperman1]

No, the brake lights should not switch off after being stationary for so long. I leave my brake light on until the next vehicle has surely seen that I am stationary. It is a bit debatable exactly how much pollution stop/start avoids. I can, and do, stop the engine if I am going to be stationary for some time. It is not difficult.

So you have avoided my invite as to which group of drivers you fit? These days, the default group is ‘aimers and steerers’, I’m afraid.

Many years ago I was sat on the M11 in a long queue caused by an accident, on my right sat a chap in a saloon, Mercedes,BMW or Audi not sure , intently reading a newspaper and in front of him, no more than 2 to 3 feet, was a transit pickup with his brake lights on. After a while the transit driver took his foot off of the brake pedal and without hesitation the newspaper reader drove straight into the back of the transit even though it wasn't moving.

Sort of cheers your day up.

Martin P

[ChrisHParticipant @chrish]

RMA – I repeat, I was commenting in response to what others had commented upon. They specifically specified Merc, Audi & BMW. Yes, I agree there are many many drivers who drive other makes of car in a similar crass manner, but I also agree that the majority of Merc, Audi & BMW driver seem to fall into that same crass driver category; it was not co-incidence that so many others commented on here so and specified those three makes.

You seem to want to make it personal, suggesting I just have a down on German made car drivers because I probably don't drive one. So I presume you do have one and so consider yourself superior. If that is to be your attitude I can't be bothered to discuss this issue further – I have better things to do. And if you can't remember where this thread started I suggest you read the opening post instead of posting a supercilious comment.

Martin P's comment above re the Merc, BMW or Audi driver driving into the back of the transit – love it, sort of reinforces the point somewhat.

[Cornish JackParticipant @cornishjack]

Observation of brakelight operating patterns plus the use/non-use of indicators is one of the more useful prompts for survival in the constant battle with the Great British Driving Idiot! I would, perhaps, be a little less than sympathetic towards anyone who complains about being 'undertaken' – that situation would indicate that the complainant was one of the ubiquitous 'middle/outside lane hogs'

It would be nice but naive to believe that British driving standards will in any way improve – emphasis by manufacturers on 'safety features', and officialdom on meaningless speed restrictions, will ensure yet more of the 'I don't have to think for myself – someone else will take care of it' attitude.

Personally, "Everyone else on the road is a homicidal maniac" is a mantra which has served me well, and safely, through my 83 years and million plus miles of accident-free world-wide driving.

rgds

Bill

[RMAParticipant @rma]

Posted by not done it yet on 28/04/2019 13:12:39:

Posted by RMA on 28/04/2019 12:16:26:

Posted by not done it yet on 28/04/2019 11:09:02:

Posted by RMA on 27/04/2019 22:17:32:

Posted by not done it yet on 27/04/2019 22:01:31:

Posted by RMA on 27/04/2019 20:24:50:

Posted by Mike Poole on 27/04/2019 19:59:36:

Your BMW auto should have a selection N which will stop it driving and let you use the handbrake. Also handy in a pull through type car wash where if you select P the transmission will be locked and the conveyor will be stalled or pull under the wheels.

Mike

I don't know anyone with an automatic who drives that way. I have to keep the foot brake on with the stop/start function, and I don't think the electronic 'hand brake' would control rollback when starting on an incline. I wouldn't dream of putting the cars through a car wash, they create too many swirls to the paintwork.

An automatic gearbox changes gears automatically. It relies on the driver to select drive or neutral and apply the hand brake like the highway code says – or used to say. – just like in any other car. Automatic drivers are just too lazy to drive properly. Brake lights are an indication that you are stopping, not parked for minutes on end! Consideration for other road users does not seem to apply to them.

Do you actually drive a modern automatic car? Would be interested to hear.

Depends on what you call “modern’.

The one I drive regularly is a Peugeot 607. Yes, I do select neutral and apply the handbrake when waiting in a queue of traffic. Yes, I do use the tiptronic gearbox in a more sensible way than the auto-select part does. Previous autos range from the 1970s Ford’s Capri and Granada, to the earlier BMW-powered Range Rover.

It is not just the inconsiderate drivers of automatics that don’t consider other road users. Many drivers of manual gearbox cars sit with their foot on the brake.

There is one roundabout in town where it seems that nearly everyone stops. They should have failed their driving test, by stopping unnecessarily. Also we have halt (stop) signs where very few drivers adhere to the lawfully erected signage.

There are drivers and just plain ‘aimers and steerers’. I would be interested to read (can’t hear a lot in a text message) into which group you fit.

By modern I mean cars which have stop/start for instance, so we're looking at about 5 year's old I guess. This feature which cuts out a lot of pollution only works when your foot is on the brake. The new buses have this feature now……… even I use my bus pass!

So instead of blaming drivers, why not get together and have a go at the manufacturers to modify how the brake lights work. They could switch off automatically after a period of being stationary, and while you're at it have a go at them to reduce the brightness of LED running lights, particularly those on certain 4 x 4's which are at eye level.

No, the brake lights should not switch off after being stationary for so long. I leave my brake light on until the next vehicle has surely seen that I am stationary. It is a bit debatable exactly how much pollution stop/start avoids. I can, and do, stop the engine if I am going to be stationary for some time. It is not difficult.

So you have avoided my invite as to which group of drivers you fit? These days, the default group is ‘aimers and steerers’, I’m afraid.

Not at all. Default group, where the hell did that come from. Your opinion I think.

[RMAParticipant @rma]

Posted by ChrisH on 28/04/2019 13:52:29:

RMA – I repeat, I was commenting in response to what others had commented upon. They specifically specified Merc, Audi & BMW. Yes, I agree there are many many drivers who drive other makes of car in a similar crass manner, but I also agree that the majority of Merc, Audi & BMW driver seem to fall into that same crass driver category; it was not co-incidence that so many others commented on here so and specified those three makes.

You seem to want to make it personal, suggesting I just have a down on German made car drivers because I probably don't drive one. So I presume you do have one and so consider yourself superior. If that is to be your attitude I can't be bothered to discuss this issue further – I have better things to do. And if you can't remember where this thread started I suggest you read the opening post instead of posting a supercilious comment.

Martin P's comment above re the Merc, BMW or Audi driver driving into the back of the transit – love it, sort of reinforces the point somewhat.

No, I would never take what started out as banter personal, we all have our own opinions. It's unfortunate that some people seem to categorize people without any actual facts. I have gone back to the original post and it's about car technology, not slagging off the drivers of German vehicles.

I for one welcome new technology where it improves the well being of all, and anything that makes driving safer has to be good. Did the complainers on here moan about the development of cars fifty year's ago? I don't consider myself superior in any way, I just like quality cars (oh dear, someone's who doesn't have one will now say they're not quality).

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Interesting exchange of opinions here that I find surprising considering it's an Engineering Website. As engineers, we prefer evidence to rants, prejudice, rumour, notions, beliefs, and fake news? Don't we?

There are statistics available linking car types to accident rates. These are surely more reliable than the opinions of elder statesmen caught in traffic jams with steam coming out their ears because the whole world has gone mad!

GoCompare's analysis of accidents by make:

1. Vauxhall (that's me) – 62 per 10000
2. Daewoo & SEAT – 60 per 10000
3. Mitsubishi – 56 per 10000
4. Renault, Chevrolet and Fiat – 55 per 10000
5. Peugot, Toyota – 53 per 10000
6. BMW – 52 per 10000
7. Smart, Ford, Volkswagen 52 per 10000
8. Citroen 51 per 10000
9. Mercedes, 49 per 10000
10. Audi, Nissan, Honda, Skoda 47 per 10000

I'm afraid these numbers don't support the notion that drivers of German cars are all idiots. Most likely explanation for an opinion like that is 'Observer Bias'. No one is immune from such foolishness: despite believing in evidence over opinion I'm negative about the owners of 4x4s who only ever go off-road in Supermarket car parks and I would cheerfully machine gun anyone towing a caravan. This despite having several good friends who are perfectly civilised apart their anti-social belief in towing a rolling roadblock as a holiday pastime.

There is strong correlation between age and accidents. Older drivers are safer. 23.94% of age 26 to 35 years, dropping to 4.14% of over 75's.

Don't know why Vauxhall's come top: it may be because they appeal to younger drivers.

Dave

 

Edited By SillyOldDuffer on 28/04/2019 15:55:09

[martin perman 1Participant @martinperman1]

Dave,

Which part of the uk do you live, as I fall into both of your hate catagories I wish to avoid your area nice to see my car isnt on the list, that bodes well for me.

Martin P

[jimmy bParticipant @jimmyb]

Nice to see Volvo's are not on the list!

I'm a "stick it N and foot brake on" man. NIDY, feel free to stick high beam on, I have auto dimming mirrors

Jim

[RMAParticipant @rma]

Good evidence Dave, and it does pay to study the facts.

You don't say what year they represent, but I had a young chap in a beat up Mondeo hit the side of my car whilst it was legally parked and then legged it. Fortunately I had witnesses and was able to get the significant bill all settled by his insurers. Yes, it was a BMW!

However, when I came to renew my insurance I was told the premium had increased because of the claim. I pointed out to them that I wasn't even in the car at the time and hadn't claimed on my own insurance, they told me that their algorithm says that I'm more likely to have a claim in the future. I asked around and apparently it's true, furthermore the extra premium will last until 3 or 5 year's has expired, depending on the insurance company! I expect I'm in the stats as a 'BMW driver'!!

Anyway, this thread has digressed from the OP regarding technology in cars. We, as engineers should come up with some suggestions for the future. Who knows they might even get looked at. When I suggested a time period for the brake lights, it was immediately shot down. The technology already exists, my car know when another vehicle is behind it, so leaving them on until another car has pulled up behind shouldn't be a problem.

I'm sure the collective brain power on here would produce some excellent ideas. Quite happy to enter into that discussion, but will opt out of the moaning about other drivers.

[Mike PooleParticipant @mikepoole82104]

With autonomous cars already a reality it is only proving them and getting legislation up to speed with technology that is holding things back. At the moment autonomous cars have to mix it with the idiots, when all cars are autonomous and communicate with each other then we will just be passengers. Driving will be a quaint pass time like riding a horse or driving a steam powered vehicle.

Mike

[Nick WheelerParticipant @nickwheeler]

Here are some other things that could be automated, but would be better if the driver actually thought about what he is doing and did them himself:

Turn off the rear fog light when there is a car behind you. Actually, not turning the damn thing on in the first place would be a better idea: it is very rarely needed.

Dip your mainbeam as soon as you see a vehicle approaching you.

Remember how to indicate correctly on roundabouts

When stopped in traffic to turn right, ensure your front wheels are straight. If somebody does hit you from behind, you won't be shunted into the oncoming traffic. Having the handbrake on is also a good idea.

Slip roads: you use them to match your speed to that of the traffic you're joining. Accelerate down on-slips and deccelerate on off-slips, it really isn't difficult. Traffic in Lane 1 doesn't have to let you in!

Give cyclists room

Remember how to indicate correctly on roundabouts.

Sidelights: they used to be called parking lights for a reason! Go straight to dipped beams.

Resting your foot on the brake pedal so that the lights come on but not the brakes is asking for trouble. Even if the car behind had left a decent gap.

[VicParticipant @vic]

Vauxhall aren't so bad in this list Dave. As some may expect BMW don’t fare well although they aren’t the worst.

**LINK**

[Author]

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