The Chocolate Fireguard as designed by Mercedes Benz

[Mark RandParticipant @markrand96270]

The thing about Wylfa is that it's a nuclear power station. Fuels costs effectively zero. 44 years of power production for not a lot of running costs. If we had followed the French model as expected in the '60s and '70s, electrical power would be the cheapest source of energy we had. Hopefully in another 50 years our children and grand children will have fusion power stations coming on line, but it'd be nice to build a couple of dozen new fission plants to tide us over until then,

 

(Waves hands:- I sent out the purchase order for the cooling fans for the JET generators when I was a child at GEC Machines).

Edited By Mark Rand on 11/05/2019 01:22:05

[pgk pgkParticipant @pgkpgk17461]

I was reading a little about fusion power last week. Whislt I understand the basic premis the practicalities are beyond me. I did find some interesting comments along the way. One analysis of fusion development concluded that "fusion power is only 30yrs away – and always will be"

Another commentary claimed that the mass and temperature of our sun wasn't enough to allow for fusion except for quantum tunneling – which i really had a hard time trying to understand. Because of that our own fusion plants apparently need temperatures (and pressures?) greater than the sun…

pgk

[Keith HaleParticipant @keithhale68713]

But remember, no matter how much you may pay for your"assist programme" there is still the situation that you as the driver are ultimately responsible for any set of of circumstances that may arise. The systems are not to be relied upon.

Parking Assist – you are to ensure that there are no low speed collisions.

Reversing camera – get out of the car to ensure that there are no obstacles that the camera can't see.

Parking sensors – see reversing camera.

Traffic lane assist – keep your eyes on the road! Really? Don't rely on the display on the console.

Braking assist – ?

Speed limit assist – that shuts down when passing some road signs, or the car turns right/left or provides incorrect data or doesn't see a sign. All this is the responsibility of the driver. Learn the Highway Code!

If the system cannot be relied upon, then what is it worth? And what makes it even more damning, is that these shortcomings are designed into the system. In that way, a manufacturer is absolved of any responsibility of anything because the system has not failed. It meets the manufacturers internal specifications.

So whatever you want in the future, don't rely on it being given in a form that is of any real use to you.

The performance of the driverless car will no doubt be the responsibility of the driver!

Keith

[RMAParticipant @rma]

Posted by CuP Alloys 1 on 11/05/2019 08:44:24:

But remember, no matter how much you may pay for your"assist programme" there is still the situation that you as the driver are ultimately responsible for any set of of circumstances that may arise. The systems are not to be relied upon.

Parking Assist – you are to ensure that there are no low speed collisions.

Reversing camera – get out of the car to ensure that there are no obstacles that the camera can't see.

Parking sensors – see reversing camera.

Traffic lane assist – keep your eyes on the road! Really? Don't rely on the display on the console.

Braking assist – ?

Speed limit assist – that shuts down when passing some road signs, or the car turns right/left or provides incorrect data or doesn't see a sign. All this is the responsibility of the driver. Learn the Highway Code!

If the system cannot be relied upon, then what is it worth? And what makes it even more damning, is that these shortcomings are designed into the system. In that way, a manufacturer is absolved of any responsibility of anything because the system has not failed. It meets the manufacturers internal specifications.

So whatever you want in the future, don't rely on it being given in a form that is of any real use to you.

The performance of the driverless car will no doubt be the responsibility of the driver!

Keith

I really don't see the point of your post. I find these systems REALLY useful, and it goes without saying that the driver is ultimately responsible for driving the car. Park assist for example is fantastic in crowded streets and the reversing camera an absolute boon when reversing in supermarket car parks. You don't say if you have any of these features, or whether your comments are just comments, but I value the technology currently available to those who want them. Anything to help in the crowded roads of the UK can only be good in my view.

As for totally driverless cars, I'll wait and see!

[OuBallieParticipant @ouballie]

Posted by Derek Lane 2 on 26/04/2019 21:36:54:

Reading this I am so happy to have a 25year old car with none of this technology, it is controlled by me. If something happens it is down to me.

I think many people will blame the car when something goes wrong or something happens instead of down to them for not being in control

Derek,

Agree wholeheartedly!

Reading this Thread, I now realise why I have a 1935 Austin Seven Ruby, a 1957 Austin A35 and a 1967 Morris Minor 1000.

Not a computer in sight!

I can lift their bonnets and see everything, BUT best of all, I CAN REPAIR just about everything as well

Geoff – A happy motorist

[SamsarandaParticipant @samsaranda]

Just to throw a thought into the EV mix, once all I.C. engined vehicles are no longer manufactured one assumes that the battlefields of the future will be amply provided with recharging stations such that tanks and logistic vehicles can continue to operate?

Dave W

[Kiwi BlokeParticipant @kiwibloke62605]

I still don't understand where all the extra electricity is going to come from, nor how it will be distributed at the currents required for mass quick charging without rebuilding the entire grid.

Presumably, the internal resistance of the batteries is very, very low. This means that the entire stored energy could be dumped in no time flat – a massive flash-bang – far faster than a tankful of petrol could be converted into heat. Accidents or fault conditions could be interesting…

[FMESParticipant @fmes]

Posted by Samsaranda on 11/05/2019 10:20:04:

Just to throw a thought into the EV mix, once all I.C. engined vehicles are no longer manufactured one assumes that the battlefields of the future will be amply provided with recharging stations such that tanks and logistic vehicles can continue to operate?

Dave W

Interestingly enough, our two new Aircraft carriers were initially designed to be nuclear powered, unfortunately mainly due to public concern the design was dropped in favour of multiphase high voltage diesel electric drive.

The generators from MTU and Wartsila are capable of using different fuels and mixes of them,.

There will always be a diesel based IC engine of some derivative or other, whether it burns fossil or vegetable fuels is a matter of design and development.

Regards

[John MCParticipant @johnmc39344]

Just read a newspaper article regarding the ranges achievable with ICE cars, seems 800 – 1000+ miles is becoming easily attainable. EV's have a long way to go to get anywhere near that. Isn't going to help getting the motoring masses to accept EV's.

[pgk pgkParticipant @pgkpgk17461]

Posted by Samsaranda on 11/05/2019 10:20:04:

Just to throw a thought into the EV mix, once all I.C. engined vehicles are no longer manufactured one assumes that the battlefields of the future will be amply provided with recharging stations such that tanks and logistic vehicles can continue to operate?

Dave W

A facetious thought is that after massive battlefield automation and electric stealth vehicle deployment the enemy successfully blocks their use with EMP weaponry such that we all resort to coal-powered steam tanks. Using slide-rules for windage and trajectory.

pgk

[Old ElanParticipant @oldelan]

'I value the technology currently available to those who want them.'

Would that you had the choice.

I had a hire car recently that took me ages to fathom.

It seemed that if I wanted cruise control, I could only have it as adaptive. First time in use it that feature so surprised me that I nearly had an accident! It chucked the brakes on…..

Hate DLR lamps. Auto lights which make you think the guy in front is braking. I could go on!

I'm with Geoff. I need to get the Elan back on the road…..

[jimmy bParticipant @jimmyb]

Posted by Kiwi Bloke 1 on 11/05/2019 10:34:59:

I still don't understand where all the extra electricity is going to come from, nor how it will be distributed at the currents required for mass quick charging without rebuilding the entire grid.

I guess that people said the same about petrol, when cars started being sold!

Jim

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

The NZ govt has been looking at increasing the amount of geothermal power generation along with wind and solar. The greenies have put an end to any much more hydro power schemes. Eventually Nuclear power will probably be required, but a good many of the locals are a bit funny about this idea.

Ian S C

[Mick B1Participant @mickb1]

Posted by jimmy b on 11/05/2019 11:47:59:

Posted by Kiwi Bloke 1 on 11/05/2019 10:34:59:

I still don't understand where all the extra electricity is going to come from, nor how it will be distributed at the currents required for mass quick charging without rebuilding the entire grid.

I guess that people said the same about petrol, when cars started being sold!

Jim

It took 50 years for cars to reach mass volumes. Current discussions are proposing switchover to EVs in about half that, at a much bigger mass volume.

[VicParticipant @vic]

Posted by jimmy b on 11/05/2019 11:47:59:

Posted by Kiwi Bloke 1 on 11/05/2019 10:34:59:

I still don't understand where all the extra electricity is going to come from, nor how it will be distributed at the currents required for mass quick charging without rebuilding the entire grid.

I guess that people said the same about petrol, when cars started being sold!

Jim

I read a while back Jim that it took 25 years for the first Petrol stations to arrive. Up until that point Petrol was bought in 2 gallon cans from either the chemist or a garage.

There was no way that petrol cars were ever going to catch on …

[Nick WheelerParticipant @nickwheeler]

Posted by Vic on 11/05/2019 13:54:22:

Posted by jimmy b on 11/05/2019 11:47:59:

Posted by Kiwi Bloke 1 on 11/05/2019 10:34:59:

I still don't understand where all the extra electricity is going to come from, nor how it will be distributed at the currents required for mass quick charging without rebuilding the entire grid.

I guess that people said the same about petrol, when cars started being sold!

Jim

I read a while back Jim that it took 25 years for the first Petrol stations to arrive. Up until that point Petrol was bought in 2 gallon cans from either the chemist or a garage.

There was no way that petrol cars were ever going to catch on …

But you can't pour a few KW of electricity into a container and carry it home…

[SamsarandaParticipant @samsaranda]

PGK, many a true word is said in jest, EMP weaponry is a realistic threat that could cripple your adversaries and paralyse huge areas of population, best not contemplate such a scenario.

Dave W

[pgk pgkParticipant @pgkpgk17461]

Posted by Samsaranda on 11/05/2019 14:26:50:

PGK, many a true word is said in jest, EMP weaponry is a realistic threat that could cripple your adversaries and paralyse huge areas of population, best not contemplate such a scenario.

Dave W

So you think my coal-powered steam tank is worthwhile? A kickstarter project with Fizzy knocking up the boilers, Jason can make the rest over an average weekend and in the spirit of sexual equality we drape Neil over the bonnet in a skimpy mankini at the next arms conference?

Nicholas Wheeler,

Yes you can pour electricity into a container.. it's just a bit heavy to lug around by the KWh.

pgk

[Mick B1Participant @mickb1]

Posted by pgk pgk on 11/05/2019 15:20:22:

…

So you think my coal-powered steam tank is worthwhile? A kickstarter project with Fizzy knocking up the boilers, Jason can make the rest over an average weekend and in the spirit of sexual equality we drape Neil over the bonnet in a skimpy mankini at the next arms conference?

…

pgk

Uncle Sam had a go at making one in 1918, but even then liquid-fuel firing was gaining ground.

**LINK**

[RMAParticipant @rma]

Posted by Old Elan on 11/05/2019 11:43:33:

'I value the technology currently available to those who want them.'

Would that you had the choice.

I had a hire car recently that took me ages to fathom.

It seemed that if I wanted cruise control, I could only have it as adaptive. First time in use it that feature so surprised me that I nearly had an accident! It chucked the brakes on…..

Hate DLR lamps. Auto lights which make you think the guy in front is braking. I could go on!

I'm with Geoff. I need to get the Elan back on the road…..

I can understand the problem with hire cars. I hire 5 or 6 a year in Spain and every car is different. They usually hand over the keys and leave you find out what's what when on the motorway. However, I now ask for a demo of what is on the car before I drive it away. you can of course rent a basic car with very little 'new technology' on. Although I have praised many of these features on this thread, I have to say I'm not a fan of the touch screen having had it on rented Volvo's and Fords, I find it quite dangerous. Much prefer the BMW I drive system as the ergonomics make it far safer to operate.

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

Posted by duncan webster on 09/05/2019 00:13:13:

The solution to range extension has just struck me! Most long journeys involve a lot of motorway, so erect catenary over the inside lane, when you're getting a bit low, pull into the inside, up with the trolley poles and charge as you go. Modern control systems should be able to cope with getting the poles onto the wires on the move, and preventing you changing lanes and disengaging the poles (memories of trolley busses). If not have an area in the services where you can stop, engage the trolley poles then rejoin the motorway

And I half thought it was a daft idea, those pesky Germans have pinched it before I even had it, see today's Times, page 7, quote 'Hybrid trucks on an autobahn in Frankfurt are being powered by overhead lines' with a picture of catenary over the motorway

see also Trolley Trucks

[martin perman 1Participant @martinperman1]

On Friday I left home at 05:30 and drove to Ballachulish, 460 in Scotland, I set my cruise control to 60 mph and 8.5 hrs later acheived 49.8 mpg, my car is a 2009 Subaru Forester 2.0 litre turbo diesel, I spent yesterday on the Jacobite Fort William to Mallaig steam charter and this morning I left Ballachulish at 08:15 and drove home at 70mph and got 46.2mpg, I'm more than pleased with that.

Martin P

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

Martin,

So it cost you £110-115 in fuel. In an electric vehicle on 920 miles of, admittedly, local motoring could have cost you as little as £25 – or even less, depending on the car, your driving style and energy unit costs (only £12.50 if with Octopus energy supplier!). A long trip like that would cost quite a bit more, mind.

920 miles/month is equivalent to 11000 miles each year – rather more than the average mileage for private motorists, so the fuel savings would be less than £85 a month – say only £70, so an annual fuel saving of £850 – and there would be minimum cost for regular servicing.

We use the 2005 Pogo 607 (150,000miles) when going to Scotland. It returns 45/46mpg – fairly well laden with all the stuff my wife takes (including the dog and its cage). My run-around 1996 Pogo 106 (120,000miles) likely does close to 60mpg (not had it long enough to do a decent check), so only £600 p.a. fuel saving with a BEV (but little fear of needing an oil change, new brake pads, etc for an EV).

I would buy a run-around BEV (or even a new one if I won 50k on the lottery or premium bonds – the 64kWh Hyundai Kona or the 50kWh Peugeot 208 would be the favoured choices, currently) if one came up at the right price. Too expensive at the moment.

There is the risk that the Morris Minor might be fitted with an electric conversion – it would be an interesting project for me. Second hand 5kWh Growatt lithium batteries can be found for about £100/kWh. Not the most powerful conversion, but likely adequate as a run-around….

[pgk pgkParticipant @pgkpgk17461]

The trouble is that the true cost of motoring isn't just fuel and oil. If I could manage a steady 60mph without the reality of acceleration and braking then my car would probably approach 400 mile on a full charge but depreciation alone is a large sum as well as tyre wear when the darned things are expensive. Oddly insurance via a deal with direct line is only £400 a year because of the safety aspects of the car and I could have done the run on free electrons.

Even without my supercharger deal the electrons in scotland are free for BEV's

in theory it would be cheaper in my '93 200sx at a lousy 30mpg with it's cheaper still insurance and zero depreciation.

For anyone that is bright and knowledgeble enough there are one or two folk in the USA who have cracked being able to take Tesla's apart themselves. One chap is in process of assembling scrap Model3 bits rebuilt into a large white van and another has salvaged a ModelS that drove into a river or lake and sorted out all the dysunctional parts. I suspect it's more a case of being a computer guru than a mechanic.

Perhaps of more interest is whether Martin P actually manaed a higher average speed at 70mph cruise than at 60 mph cruise – possibly since the motorways should be quieter Oop North. When I was regulalrly driving from here to bedford in my GT86 – 160 miles – then the best time i ever managed was 2.5 hrs once only, an average of 3.5 hrs and a worst case of nearly 6hrs

pgk

[martin perman 1Participant @martinperman1]

If I cruise at 70 mph the mpg takes a dive below 46 mpg, I would say that my journey was 75% motorway but as said before I have to stop every two hours to check my sugar levels, type 2 Diabetic injecting insulin. The last 100 miles from Glasgow to my destination was climbing to 350 metres, winding roads etc.

Martin P

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