Steel boilers

[Michael CallaghanParticipant @michaelcallaghan68621]

Hi chaps. I have a question. Last week I saw club boiler testers refuse to test a steel boiler. Said boiler was out of the frames and unwrapped. In the boiler code book, it states that steel boilers can be tested and how to go about it. So why did these boiler testers refuse to test a boiler. In my mind it looked like they just made up some new rules, in refusing to test the boiler. If some clubs do test and others don’t, what is the point in having a testing code or standard. What our your views on this. Mine is if the boiler stood the test then that’s a past, end of. I read in an American magazine that a chap had made a boiler out of a used oxygen cylinder for his big boy locomotive. So our boiler testers getting above themselves here in the U.K. I am all for safety. But if something passes, it is ok. And I think boiler testers should all test steel or copper boilers or none at all.

[Michael CallaghanParticipant @michaelcallaghan68621]

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

With out knowing what the inspector said it's impossible to say.

He may have felt it was beyond his ability, or experience to test it, after all they are just volunteers who may not have much experience with steel only copper. Take a look at 3.9.C and 4.6 in the test code

Was it new with weld and material certs. Or was it old and unknown in which case he may not have had the equipment to adequately test for wastage due to corrosion.

Steel boilers in locos are not common was it to a recognised design or were calculations provided?

 

US states all have differing codes, some are very lax and you can just about make a boiler from anything.

If your club tester can't do it find a professional inspector with the ability to test steel, may cost you though.

 

Edited By JasonB on 05/04/2022 19:43:42

[John BaguleyParticipant @johnbaguley78655]

A Club boiler inspector is quite within his right to refuse to test any boiler, especially a steel one. Many will not feel themselves qualified to do so. To do a proper test on a steel boiler then you need an ultrasonic thickness tester so that you can check the thickness of the steel plate in various places. It's also useful if you have an endoscope so that you can examine the inside of the boiler. Most testers will not have access to that equipment. A steel boiler is a totally different animal to a copper one. Steel boilers will corrode over time, especially if not looked after properly, and reach a condition where they are getting dangerously thin, even though they may pass a simple hydraulic test. They may pass the test and then fail, perhaps catastrophically, soon after.

John

Club Boiler Tester

Edited By John Baguley on 05/04/2022 20:01:35

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

I see this in terms of insurance. When a club runs an engine it becomes responsible for any accidental injuries to members of the club or the public. Steam Boilers are a well-known hazard.

UK clubs cover their financial accident liability with an Insurance Policy, and, rather than the Insurer inspecting each and every boiler, they require the club to satisfy themselves boilers are safe. The Insurer has to be confident the club will do a good job, and it's very much not in the club's interest to nod dodgy boilers through. A club that lost it's insurance due to negligence would have to shut down.

Not particularly difficult when the Inspectors have a good understanding of the boiler. However, there's more to certifying a boiler than a quick once over and a couple of pressure tests. Who built it, was he skilled and did he follow the Guidelines? Is it built to a well-established design? Have appropriate materials and construction methods been used? How old is it – corrosion and so forth? Any modifications or signs of damage?

A problem with steel boilers is they're harder to check than Copper. An inspector fully up to speed on typical copper boilers might judge he's not competent to take an insurance risk on unfamiliar methods and materials. He and his club would be foolish to certify any boiler they weren't confident in. No doubt some clubs have inspectors qualified to certify steel boilers and novel designs, whilst others don't.

In the event a club can't certify a boiler the owner can always pay a specialist to do it. The drawback is cost, especially painful if the thing fails! Or run the engine uninsured on a private track.

What goes on in other countries doesn't matter. You have to do whatever the locals demand.

Dave

[Clive Brown 1Participant @clivebrown1]

I'm probably out of date, but boiler insurance granted on the basis of approval by inspectors appointed by a club was only available for copper boilers made to approved designs. Steel boilers were the realm of the professionals, usually at considerable cost and trouble.

[Michael CallaghanParticipant @michaelcallaghan68621]

Interesting, however I find it odd, that there is nothing about material thickness in the federation book on boiler tests. The boiler I think was from a traction engine in which steel boilers are very common. If traction engine people can get their boilers tested without cameras and so on, and I have witnessed a few traction engine tests on steel boilers, I don’t understand why it’s not the same for locomotive boilers. Odd hobby at times I think.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

A lot can simply be down to the inspectors some are able to do steel others not, if you look in the FAQ about the code that come up with a google search you can see there is provision to have another clubs inspector do the test if yours is not able.

Many a traction engine owner makes use of independant inspectors, sometimes a group will get together and have several engines tested in a day which makes it a bit less of an expense or others prefer to have the inspector visit them and test at home which is handy if something small may need to be done as the workshop is to hand'

The test is to see if the boiler is sound, with steel the thickness changes and if it gets too thin then it is unsound and it would be unwise to subject it to a pressure test if the inspector felt it was too thin. This is why a typical steelboiler barrel may be 6mm compared with 3mm for a copper one when new as it allows for corrosion over time.

Clive, testing of steel has been in the code for a long time but not all inspectors are able to test it as they may have a background in mostly copper boilers and are not equiped to do a test on steel.

[Paul KempParticipant @paulkemp46892]

Michael,

There is a world of difference between refusing to test a boiler and declining to test a boiler.

A test ought to be declined if the if the inspector does not have the experience knowledge or competence to make a judgement.

A test may be refused if the opinion of the inspector from a preliminary visual examination has an opinion the boiler has faults that would fail a hydraulic test, if the boiler has no provenance such as original material certificates, evidence of welder competence or previous history.

As stated by others steel boilers are subject to corrosion issues more seriously than copper and require a slightly different approach and different equipment to properly examine.

However, back to the first line! A refusal to test is different to politely declining and without knowing the circumstances it is impossible to pass opinion on the decision.

Best regards,

Paul.

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