Source of SK30 Arbours

[Joseph Noci 1Participant @josephnoci1]

Hi to all.

I realise that obtaining most anything from my part of the world (Swakopmund, Namibia…) is a challenge , but I cannot seem to find a sensible source of SK30 style milling arbours anywhere. I am after Morse taper, Shell end mill and ER collet to SK30 arbours and am not having much luck. I am a little fearful of Chinese..

Any Ideas?

Regards

Joe

[Joseph Noci 1Participant @josephnoci1]

[EmgeeParticipant @emgee]

Hi Joe

Isn't SK30 the same as ISO 30 which is the same dimensions and taper as the BT30, only difference is the method of holding in the spindle, ISO30 is also threaded for a draw bar, pull studs can be fitted to the holders in place of the draw bar if you have auto/manual toolchanger. If you want a pull stud method for the ISO30 you need to cut off the parallel end to obtain the correct length. Widens your choice a bit.

Emgee

Edited By Emgee on 15/02/2017 11:14:11

[Joseph Noci 1Participant @josephnoci1]

Hi Emgee,

I have been battling to find a concise text that gives the differences between SK30,ISO30,BT30, etc…Short of wading through various manufacturers datasheets, with lots of fine printed dimensions…

You may in fact be correct though, and further digging reveals that the main difference appears to be in the flange diameter – 50mm in SK30 and 46mm in ISO30, which will make no difference to my setup all.

So now we can search for ISO30 stockists…

Thanks!

Regards

Joe

[Mark BarronParticipant @markbarron78673]

Hi Joe,

I use Bison for all my milling machine toolholders (ISO 30) – good quality for a reasonable price.

They're made in Poland. I've just checked their website and they have distributors in South Africa.

http://www.bison-bial.com

Thanks,

Mark.

[BikepeteParticipant @bikepete]

Also try 30INT and INT30 as keywords – same thing unless I'm much mistaken. Plenty of confusion around naming – a picture is often the best check that you have the correct style.

Edited By Bikepete on 15/02/2017 13:05:34

[MuzzerParticipant @muzzer]

Cutwel offer 6 holders for £99, which is a pretty good price – and they don't sell cr4p. They seem to come in 3 flavours, each with a DIN spec. I bought a load of ISO40 holders – mix and match different sizes:

• DIN2080 (aka ISO30/ISO40/ISO50)
• DIN69871 (aka SK30/SK40/SK50)
• DIN69893 (aka HSK50/HSK63/HK100)

If you have an imperial thread, it might be NMTB30/40/50 which seems to be the imperial version of ISO30/40/50.

The main problem with Cutwel may be that they may not ship to your region. It all depends on what exclusivity agreement they have with their suppliers. They refused to ship to me when I lived in Canada because a Canadian supplier had that sales territory for Korloy. Instead I got stuff shipped to my mum's and took it from there.

Murray

PS: to be certain, look up the DIN specs to check the key dimensions. Above all, check if imperial or metric. If it's metric it will surely be one of the DIN stds. If it's imperial it may be one of the myriad US specs, with different names etc.

I'm pretty certain you won't want an ISO30 holder if your machine takes an SK30. ISO30 and NMTB30 have a long parallel shank and the drawbar is correspondingly shorter.

Edited By Muzzer on 15/02/2017 13:27:46

[Ex contributorParticipant @mgnbuk]

Which flavour you require depends on your mill.

SK & BT are tool changer flanges & the taper is truncated. An SK flange has evenly spaced lands above & below the groove, whereas BT has a deeper flange overall & the top land is wider than the bottom. The small end of the taper is machined to take a pullstud. The machine tool change holders will be designed to take one or the other – they are not interchangeable. SK holders seem to be favoured by European builders, with BT used on Far Eastern & US machines (sometimes called CAT/ANSI), though many MTBs offer a choice.

DIN2080 & QC have a thinner, ungrooved drive flange & the taper is topped with a short parallel stub. The stub is tapped for a drawbar, not a pullstud. Difference between them is that the QC variant has both sides of the flange machined, as it is intended for use with an Erikson locknut mounted on the bottom of the spindle nose & clamps the tool via the front face of the flange not using a drawbar – popular on Bridgeports. Both are primarily manual change, though the Dana Summit toolchanger fitted to Matchmaker (and others) NC turret mills gripped around the outside of a DIN2080 flange to change the tool & the tools were stored upside down in the chain, using the stub for location.

Cutwel would be my first port of call, though I don't think that their 30 taper tools are included in the 6 for £99 offer alluded to by Muzzer.

HTH

Nigel B

[Joseph Noci 1Participant @josephnoci1]

And therein lies the dilemma!

Precisely the confusion that reins! In essence, I am looking at possibly procuring an EMCO FB3 Milling machine, and trying to get an idea of what lies ahead in costs and associated pain in tooling up for it. It is not an auto-changer, uses a drawbar, and specifies SK30.

If I need a longer/shorter drawbar, that is not serious, but if there is a short parallel stub up top of the non-SK, then I am not sure if it will fit in the spindle.. And I am sure that asking Emco for advice will provide a derisive answer..

Oh Dear!

Joe

[Ex contributorParticipant @mgnbuk]

The UK Emco agent is showing the FB3 as a current machine – see **LINK**

The spindle spec for the FB3 is DIN2080 SK30. For it's bigger brothers, the spec is shown as DIN69871 SK40 & they have what appears to be a hydraulic drawbar, so these would require a pullstud. The "SK" here may be a German abreviation for "Steep taper" or similar description of the taper, with the DIN spec showing the tool holder style.

That seems quite clear to me ? DIN2080 style tools with a 30 taper for the FB3. You could try contacting the UK agent for confirmation.

The Chinese tooling I have purchased so far has been fine, but I have yet to get any 30 taper tooling from there – the Denford Triac I have in storage is QC30, with an Erikson locknut. Gloster Tooling in the UK list 30 taper tools, but they are usually more expensive than Cutwel.

Nice looking little machine – bet they don't come cheap !

HTH

Nigel B

[MuzzerParticipant @muzzer]

Damn, hadn't noticed that the 30 tapers are not listed in the Cutwel promotions. I'm pretty certain they were when I bought my ISO40 stuff, as I also have ISO30 tooling. It's probably worth calling to find out, as I have found some of their website content can be a bit inconsistent and they will often offer you a good deal if you ask. IIRC, the offer had actually ended when I got mine but they extended it anyway.

Something doesn't quite compute with the Emco description of "DIN2080 SK30". Sounds like a contradiction in terms, as SK30 seems to be defined in DIN69871 while DIN2080 describes the ISO30 holder which is quite different, with the parallel shank – take a look. You really wouldn't want to try fitting an ISO30 tool into an SK30 socket…..

Murray

[Ex contributorParticipant @mgnbuk]

Murray,

If you need a contact at Cutwel, try Caroline Hunter – she is my account manager & is very helpful at getting the best pricing for tooling packages. IIRC form the February flyer, the "6 for £99" offer on 40 taper tooling is current again. And they are well made holders – I have tooled up 2 VMCs with them & don't know how they can make such a quality item so cheaply (probably fully automatically from bar stock, untouched by human hand !)

I did a bit more looking into the SK bit – seems the German for "steep taper" as used to describe this type of tooling is "Steilkegel", so I suspect that the "SK" used in the Emco brochure is just German short hand for "steep taper" – German tooling catalogues tend to confirm this. So the "SK + number" just gives the taper size & and the DIN standard used in conjunction with the "SK + number" defines the form of the toolholder. Likewise, I suspect that our use of "SK" to define the DIN 69871 form is also just a form of shorthand – though in this instance, a confusing one.

Nigel B

[MuzzerParticipant @muzzer]

The terminology used on Cutwel site seems to agree with the Google links I showed above – they seem to have it sussed. Confusing at first sight but there seems to be a system there.

My "account manager" at Cutwel is Laura Dryden who has found some flexibility on pricing for me although I'm hardly a big spender. Again, I linked to this month's offers and it shows 40 taper at £99 for 6 but not 30 taper. But I'm pretty sure you'd get a similar price for the 30 taper. if you asked. I've stopped buying stuff until I am able to start breaking things again (getting very close!) but I have got most of my purchases from them through their offers.

Murray

[Joseph Noci 1Participant @josephnoci1]

Thank again for all the commentary – As seen, it remains confusing!

Something doesn't quite compute with the Emco description of "DIN2080 SK30". Sounds like a contradiction in terms, as SK30 seems to be defined in DIN69871 while DIN2080 describes the ISO30 holder which is quite different, with the parallel shank – take a look. You really wouldn't want to try fitting an ISO30 tool into an SK30 socket…..

Nigel B indicates it should be quite clear – DIN2080 Tooling with a 30 Taper….

However, DIN2080 is NOT SK30….DIN 69871 appears to be SK30 ( even on the BISON site..) WITHOUT the short top parallel section. DIN 2080 has this section on top, where the drawbar pulls.

Attached below is an extract from the FB3 accessories list, and even they appear to be confused!

In my book that is not SK30…DIN2080 is ISO30 as far as I can make out. I agree with Muzzer's comment above!

[Ex contributorParticipant @mgnbuk]

I did a bit more looking into the SK bit – seems the German for "steep taper" as used to describe this type of tooling is "Steilkegel", so I suspect that the "SK" used in the Emco brochure is just German short hand for "steep taper" – German tooling catalogues tend to confirm this. So the "SK + number" just gives the taper size & and the DIN standard used in conjunction with the "SK + number" defines the form of the toolholder. Likewise, I suspect that our use of "SK" to define the DIN 69871 form is also just a form of shorthand – though in this instance, a confusing one.

Type "Steilkegel DIN2080" into Google & you get German tooling catalogues. I think this is just a difference in how the tooling is described in the machine tool builder's native language.

Nigel B

[EmgeeParticipant @emgee]

Joseph, from memory taper for BT30 and ISO30 is 7/24,(same taper on 20,30,40,50) the BT30 taper finishes at the same length as the ISO30 without the parallel portion.

BT30 equiped with integral pullstud were std equipment on all early Emco mills.

BT30 with scew-in pullstud are suitable replacements for the Emco's and Denford Triacs with ATC although some of those used BT35 tooling.

You haven't said if your machine is equiped with a manual tool change lever or ATC which needs a pullstud end or if you just have a drawbar type spindle.

 

Emgee

Edited By Emgee on 16/02/2017 11:16:16

[RainbowsParticipant @rainbows]

Worth noting you could always try and build the tooling yourself

though this does require you to work out if your using SK or INT tooling first. Depends how you value your time.

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